WNP513 – Douglas Gorney
Nicole: [00:00:00] It's Outside Lands San Francisco, podcast of Western Neighborhoods Project. Your weekly dose of friendly neighborhood history.
Hello, Outside Landers. I'm, of course, Nicole Meldahl, and it's great to be with you again. Now, I know we said we'd be doing sort of a straight history podcast about the Kanrin Maru monument in Lincoln Park, but I have to tell you, there's a lot more history we need to research to get that history right. So, we've tabled the subject for now and, in its place, I'm super excited to have a special guest with me today. Someone I've really wanted to have on the pod for a really long time now. And we happened to meet in real life last week and it just felt like the right time. So please welcome to the podcast, Douglas Gorney.
Douglas: Hello, Nicole. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really happy to be here. Big, big fan of [00:01:00] the pod.
Nicole: Well, the pod’s a big fan of you, Douglas. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna tell our listeners who you are, cause you're here to tell them who you are. But Douglas and I have crossed paths, like ships sailing past each other at night in the sea for many, many years. And we ran into each other again at the 4 Star Theater for this, a kind of new thing called Local Critique that was put on by, I guess, the Problem Library, but folks more tangential to them. And I was like, Douglas got to have you on the podcast. Now's the time.
Douglas: I love that, that nautical reference. I'm picturing us as ships outside the Gate somewhere at night, you know, and the Farallones, just turned out to bump into each other, but eventually we did. And it's all worked out beautiful.
Nicole: There's, I've got nautical on the mind, because we're prepping for something called Shipwreck Week in October. So, there's probably going to be a lot of nautical puns and I'm so sorry.
Douglas: No, bring them on. [00:02:00]
Nicole: Okay. But so, Douglas, maybe you give us the like elevator pitch if you will of who Douglas Gorney is.
Douglas: Oh, wow. Well, I've been thinking about this. I have a somewhat unconventional life in a city of unconventional lives, but, and so I've been trying to get my pitch down. I've been on a few other podcasts and this means get it, make it more concise. I am an artist. And how's that? How's that for pithy?
Douglas: I have been, I'm a San Francisco native, and I've been very lucky to be making my living doing art, mostly here on the West side for the last few years. And I do, I primarily work in watercolor and my sort of bread and butter is doing commissioned portraits of people's houses. But I also do as much just sketching of everything as I can. I'm the organizer of the Sunset Sketchers, who some of [00:03:00] your listeners may be familiar with. And we're a group of urban sketchers here on the West side. We meet weekly and sketch stuff. It's pretty self-explanatory. And also connected to a bunch of other arts and cultural projects and initiatives and collectives on, here on the West side as we can discuss as we go on.
Nicole: So yeah, as you've already, as you already know, listeners, Doug does everything everywhere all at once and it's amazing. Let's unpack, let's unpack you a little bit, Doug. You say you're a San Francisco native. It's going to be, it's going to be a soft unpack. Don't worry. This isn't a....
Douglas: A soft unpack. I love it.
Nicole: You say you're a San Francisco native. Like, tell us what your folks were like. Like, how come you were born here?
Douglas: Well, let's see. My father and, my mother and father met when my dad was in the Navy. My dad is a double veteran actually, but after serving, he, he's [00:04:00] from, let's go back. Let's go back to the dawn of time. So, my father actually was born in Poland. And this is not going to be very long, but it's kind of interesting. My dad was born in Poland and then his parents came to Mexico where he grew up, and then he went to college at Harvard. And while at Harvard, it was during the war and, that's World War II for your younger listeners, and he was seeing all these young men dressed in army uniforms and looking very important and serving their country and getting girls. So, he figured that was something he should do. And plus, that would be a fast track to citizenship. So, he did that. And then he served his time in the army, almost went to Anzio, but then he found out, they found out that he was going to, he had been accepted to medical school. So, they pulled him out of line at the last minute and he finished that. And then once he become a doctor. [00:05:00] His army service was up, but he still was feeling very grateful to the U.S. for putting him through medical school. So, he joined the Navy. He liked the uniforms and, and he figured it would give him a chance to see a bit of the world, which he did. And while he was, he would, he had moved out here and was shipping out to Korea aboard a hospital ship from Fort Mason. And when he was in port in town, he was dating a woman at, at U.C. Berkeley and she wasn't home. She stood him up one time and her roommate happened to be my mom. And he said, well, you want to go out? And so, the rest is history. Although there's a cute, cute thing where they would correspond back and forth when he was at sea. So, it was a primarily an epistolary romance. And then, [00:06:00] he actually proposed to her via letter. And then, when he got back to port, she was waiting for him at the dock at Fort Mason. So that's how I came to be.
Nicole: That’s, that is a very cute origin story, Douglas.
Douglas: Yeah. And so, I grew up on Telegraph Hill with a view of the port. So, very always have a reference point to either the bay or now the ocean. That's an important part of my, of my home port.
Nicole: Was going to say, I've been reading a lot about Ansel Adams and how him growing up on the West side really affected him and impacted his work as a photographer. And I have to think that growing up on Telegraph Hill continues to influence you. Like, do you think the fact that you were born and raised in San Francisco had an immediate impact on you being an artist? Or do you think you'd be an artist if you were like born and raised in Kansas?
Douglas: That's a good question. Boy, Doug born and raised in Kansas. [00:07:00] Kansas is a cool state. I love me some prairie, but hard to think. I did really appreciate growing up on Telegraph Hill. Even at the time. I mean, you know, when you're a kid growing up, you just don't have much of a reference point. But I knew that it was fun to, to explore all the secret gardens and stairways and so forth. That, that was really neat. Was it influencing my art? You know, I did dabble in art as a kid. I liked drawing. I thought I was going to be a designer and a car designer, actually.
Douglas: It took, and we can go over a little bit more of my particular art background, but it really took moving here to the other side of town, to the Sunset, to really find my muses. It's, it’s the Sunset and the Avenue specifically. The light and space of the West side that really inspire me as an artist.
Nicole: I gotta say, so yeah, let's talk about your journey as an artist. Like, when did you first [00:08:00] start making art and when did you decide? I think I can do this for my life.
Douglas: Right. Well, that, yeah that's where I've been working on getting the story nice and concise. But so, I went to, went to U.C. Berkeley. Go Bears! And was majoring in something else in history. And I took some art classes on a, on a lark. My sculpture teacher really encouraged me and said I was really good at this and I should consider doing it for a living. Which, at the time, being a history major, it's like, you know, what am I going to do with that? So, I said okay, that sounds good. So, I graduated from U.C. and went on to art school at California College of the Arts, then CCAC. RIP Crafts, but whatever. And then, and then the Art Institute of Chicago. And I was all set to be a sculptor, but then life as it does took a, took a bunch of left turns. And I didn't really [00:09:00] even hardly pick up a pencil for 30 or more years.
Douglas: I did a lot of different things, including, I became a teacher of the Transcendental Meditation program. And settled into a career after doing that pretty full time of corporate copywriting, Marcom and branding. So, I was doing that. And then, it's really when I moved here to the West side after, after being with a series of failed startups and kind of feeling a bit of burnout, that I started sketching again. And it really something, something as I say about the very special look of, of the Western neighborhoods. Which was new to me growing up on Telegraph Hill, who knew what was out there on the other side of the city? And it's like, you know, it's like the, one of those old maps where you just, no one really knew was there. And so, it was just said like there'd be dragons, I don't know. There's fog. Guam was out there somewhere. Who knew? So, I, I, when [00:10:00] I arrived here, I moved here just because there was no other place to find in the city and I was really taken by it. And it just, it just really spoke to me. And the, all the pastel colors and that very diffuse marine light sort of said to me, tell my story, you know, paint me. And so, I did. And I guess it, it mostly, I have the internet to think. Just posting my work here and there. And getting people asking me if I did commissions enabled me to, to consider it as a, as something I might do at least heavily part time and it's really become full time now.
Nicole: I have to say I'm shocked. I thought you had been born and raised in the Sunset, because you so embody this neighborhood in so many ways. Just the energy that you bring to the work that you're doing, the work that you're doing in general. And you just have this very, this very calm presence about you. Which I feel [00:11:00] like floats out into the air around you. And I always appreciate it so much. You can be in the middle of a busy room and like, there's Doug.
Douglas: Oh. That's kind of you to say. I think that's probably years of meditating, more than the Sunset per se. But I'll, you know, whatever, I'll take it. And I, but I do really appreciate your saying that because I've, I feel, you know, if there's any neighborhood in the city these days where you're going to find people who have deep roots in San Francisco, it is the Sunset.
Douglas: Even more than the Richmond, you find multi-generational families here. I'm very often meeting people here and I do get to, to meet local people by virtue of my interesting to the niche job. People who say, I want you to paint my house because it was my grandparent’s house and my mom's house and now we're selling it or whatever. And people who've been here since their grandparents, even great-grandparents in some cases, and so, they really have a story [00:12:00] to tell. So, I feel like a interloper to feel like a newbie. And, and so, and I did only arrive here, yeah, in 2000 what, I'm gonna say, 2016, near thereabout. So yeah, 2016. So, it's, it hasn't been long. And really the, this is gonna be a shocking revelation here on the Outside Lands Podcast, but I never set foot in the Sunset at all beyond like 9th and Irving, everyone passes your 9th and Irving at some point in their lives, but at, at all before that. And there suddenly I was and place came up and at 48th and Pacheco and where is that? And I took it and I just I just loved it. So close to the beach and so forth. I guess now that I think about it, of course, as a kid, I went to the Zoo as a kid and also to Fleishhacker Pool. Trauma [00:13:00] but, but that's anyway, that's Parkside. It's not really the Sunset. So, yeah, Outer Sunset, even Central Sunset? No. So anyway, that's a long, long-winded save, say, a way of saying I'm new here. And so, I really appreciate that people saying that I, I seem to be, I seem to fit here.
Nicole: Yeah, you definitely do. Although I'm from LA, so like, you know, I'm sure people would take issue of me qualifying anybody as belonging in San Francisco, but you know, I've paid my dues here. I'd like to remind folks of that. And I love that…
Douglas: Well, you kind of leapfrogged the whole San Francisco native living here for a long-time stuff and you went right to host of the Outside Lands Podcast or running the Western Neighborhoods podcast organization's project. So, you know, you've got rights. You, you paid your dues quickly.
Nicole: I try, you know, it wasn't that quick, but yeah, I do try. And I love hearing that you're a reformed history major as well. I mean, good call. I think history is the one profession that [00:14:00] earns you less than a working artist.
Douglas: True, it's some great line in a movie I heard once. It's a springboard into many fields. Like unemployment.
Nicole: Yeah. I remember when I declared as a history major, my dad was like, “what are you going to do with that? Are you going to teach?” And I was like, “no, I don't want to be a teacher.” And he was like, ”oh my god, I'm going to support you for the rest of my life.”
Douglas: Similar conversations were had on my end.
Nicole: But I'm actually using it and you're using your art degree. So, you know what? Like, we're doing okay. So, so, okay, you moved to the Sunset in 2016. Why did you start Sunset Sketchers, let's get into that part of your life.
Douglas: So, and posting my sketches of, you know, the doldrums and the wonderful colors and light out here in the, on the West side, some other artists, some artists who were out here had seen my stuff and said, why don't we start [00:15:00] an urban sketching group? And I said, well, that sounds like a good idea. Now, I had known that there was the larger S.F. Sketchers, which is our local chapter of the, of the global urban sketching movement. Urban sketching is a big thing that started and it's basically what it sounds like. People, mostly in cities, just sketching what's around them, you know? Sketching is, sketching, and watercolor sketching in particular, has been thought of as, you know, maybe a field of daffodils or sailboats bobbing in a harbor. Which are fine, but people these days often live in cities and in cities you have, you have cafes, you have gas stations, you have a nondescript shopping district and it’s manicure shops and just, and in our case, Doelger homes and so forth. And it may not be that classically picturesque, but it's interesting. And so, with the advent of the internet, people came together and just shared what was near them. And [00:16:00] so, the urban sketching movement was born. And shout out to the artist, Gabi Campanaro, an illustrator in Seattle who started, who coined the term urban sketching and sort of the, as I understand it, sort of the godfather of the movement. But now there are urban sketching chapters in cities really spanning the globe and some absolutely rock star artists who were, are just like urban sketching superstars who are based everywhere from Yorkshire to Singapore to Penang, Malaysia, to just every place you can imagine there. There's great sketching going on. So long and short of it, San Francisco chapter has events all over the Bay Area, particularly in San Francisco. And I was finding in San Francisco, mostly downtown, and living in 48th and Pacheco, I mean, it’s quite a schlep. It becomes such a total Sunsetter. It's like, you know, it's having to, I don't want to go there. So, so, and some other Sunset artists felt the same way. And so, we [00:17:00] started our own little subgroup, the Sunset Sketchers, with the idea of doing sketching just in the Sunset. Then it sort of expanded to the West side generally. And then, we got absorbed into the larger S.F. Sketchers group, because the more the merrier. And we still have our identity and our sort of mission of doing things between like Land's End and the Ingleside Sundial. And so, we started our, we had our first meetup in 2018 and it's been gaining steam ever since. So, we have weekly meetups, sometimes more than weekly. And we can be found, for those who are interested in getting evolved, involved, evolved, well, yes, getting involved our next meetup, which I understand this is going to be relevant news at the time of the publication of this podcast is going to be on Sunday, August 27th.
Nicole: Perfect. [00:18:00]
Douglas: Yay. At, we've been doing the firehouses of the West side, which is a cool little way to pay tribute to our wonderful firefighters and also get an angle onto San Francisco history. And the next one we're doing is station 39 at, which is at in the Sherwood Forest neighborhood at the base of Mount Davidson. And it's on Portola Drive, 1091 Portola Drive. So that's Sunday the 27th from 10:30 to 12:30. So, if you'd like to join us, there's no membership process. There's no initiation. There's no fee. You just show up and bring a sketchbook and some, whatever, colored pencils, pencil, watercolors, whatever you want, markers, and join us. And it's a lot of, it's a lot of fun.
Nicole: Yeah. There we, you did one at the Cliff House when we…
Douglas: We have. Yeah. Thank you so much for helping with that. That was really, really very special. At The Museum at The Cliff when you were there. [00:19:00]
Nicole: Yeah. We were happy to have you like, you know, how fun it was to have the keys to that place and get people access like that. You know, how many folks were able to just hang out in the Cliff House for free?
Nicole: For most of his life, you know? And it was so fun to watch your group because there's a range of like, you know, experience and abilities, but everyone feels totally part of it. And you guys, you know, everyone picked their spots and created their art. And then, you had like sort of a mini critique at the end where you laid it all out on the bar and everyone kind of looked at everybody else's stuff. And I was so impressed by how like productive that process was, but also so kind and inclusive, you know? Like it can be really intimidating trying to start drawing and your group is so welcoming and incredible. I'm just so impressed with it.
Douglas: I hasten to say that I always preface the, we call it a throw down.
Douglas: I preface it, I always preface it by saying, especially for the new [00:20:00] people, this is not a critique.
Douglas: You know, we're not, all these, all these sketches are wonderful. And it's fantastic that you came. I'm really excited about this. And so, we just talk a little bit about what the process was like with this sketch. What attracted us to the thing we sketched. And what it was like for us. And then other people chime in with some complimentary thing or pointing out something that, that even the artists may not have noticed that they did. And yeah, it's a lot of fun and I am very, I'm especially excited, I mean, we have some great, great artists. People who have been sketching, we have some older people who've been sketching for, you know, 50+ years at a really high level of skill. Professional artists, but then, we get some people who haven't sketched since fifth grade or people maybe who are closer in age to fifth grade. And that's what really excites me, because it's, I feel that in this sort of giving back activity. I just want to inspire people [00:21:00] to, to be creative. To connect with their world, with the world around them in a different way. And to celebrate the arts and the creativity of, of the West side, of the Sunset, where, which has such a rich history of, that's really in an interesting stage now. Where we have so many artists here and so many galleries and so many other arts adjacent organizations.
Nicole: Yeah, it really does feel like the Sunset is experiencing its own kind of renaissance. And I'm so curious, I mean, I know there's some logical reasons for that. It's like lower rents and leases and stuff out here create space, but it's not like it's cheap out here. It's cheaper. It’s not…
Douglas: Cheaper. Cheaper.
Nicole: But it's wonderful to see, because there's, I'm starting to learn as I step out of my historian box and step into sort of more of an arts focused box on, in my free time, that there's so much value in being around people doing interesting, creative things, because like, [00:22:00] it's such an open community here. Like there's no, I know the gallery scene can get kind of crazy downtown, where, you know, not to throw shade, but it's like, it's very cutthroat and like, everyone's trying to sell expensive pieces. And it's not like that here. Like John Lindsey at the Great Highway Gallery is, you know, he's there to sell art obviously, but it feels like that.
Douglas: That's a good point. I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right. And the downtown galleries have always been our most, what would we say, they've been the galleries that are selling work by recognized artists, and the ticket prices are higher, and there's more money involved, and I think that's part of it. The rents are higher. The, this sticker prices of the paintings are higher. The names are bigger. So yeah, that's a more, it's a more serious game. Here in the Sunset, I think the emphasis is more on, on just on creativity [00:23:00] rather than the sale in that way. Cause we're not necessarily, we're not names, internationally recognized names in the same way, by and large.
Nicole: Yeah. And it's, and it's so fun how accessible everybody is like, we can kind of segue into talking about Boardside, which a lot of the activities you all put together, it's literally in someone's backyard. And that gives everything so much more of a, like a homey approachable feel. Aside from like, being like, oh, should I be in this man's backyard. It's okay.
Nicole: But aside from that, like I, there's just, there's an energy out here that I haven't seen, I got here in 2002, so I haven't seen in a long time. It feels like we're really part of something now. And you're a big part of that. And so is Boardside out in the Sunset. So maybe you can kind of get into how you got involved in the Boardside. Listeners will have already kind [00:24:00] of been familiar because we had Thorsten Sideboard on our podcast many, well, like a million years ago now, but give us a refresher, Doug.
Douglas: Sure. And first of all, I just want to, to very much echo what you said, or just a big yes on everything you said about the West side. I think there is, in addition to, I don't know, the, just the moment in my life, the light, the space, whatever. It's like, yeah, I got a sketch that it, there's something to the neighborhood that is very, for artists, I think it's really, it's a welcoming art economy out here. It's a welcoming art culture. And there's something in the very, I'm going to get woo woo now, but there's something in the very air out here. A certain mellowness. A certain, a lot of it, a lot of the, a lot of the strictures and the pressures and the expectations of inland life fall [00:25:00] away out here. You tend, as you get nearer the beach, things get more misty. They get more diffuse. And they, and so, you can just kind of do whatever. You can explore different possibilities. And you don't have to think so, it's not so much, this is this, and that is that, And I, I am an artist, or I am not an artist. It's just it all, it's kind of whatever. That was all kind of, that was very California.
Nicole: No, I agree. I feel it.
Douglas: What the heck, here we are.
Nicole: Yeah. Everyone…
Douglas: My first show, by the way, which I had at the late great Streamline, which I don't know if you ever went to, but it was a cafe and gallery that my Boardside collaborator, Brent Wilson, ran along with our friend Dion Garcia at the corner of Taraval and 46th. And the name of that show was Landfall. And just the [00:26:00] theme of it again was that idea that we're so near the ocean here with a lot of us, particularly in the Outers, you're practically living in water. And it's, and then the air itself is so full of mist and fog and water that everything seems kind of, I don't know, it's not yet fully material. Things aren't yet as, the borders aren't as hard. Okay, so there's more of that sense of all possibilities.
Nicole: There, I've been reading a lot about physics and initially, like, you know, back in the days of Aristotle and things like that, they thought the universe was filled with ether.
Nicole: Like, that's how they explain space in between us, as like celestial bodies. And they've disproved that, that it's not the ether anymore. But I think about that a lot, about the ether between us, and around us, and what we pull from it, and what it gets us. Now this podcast has gone very woo woo, but…
Douglas: I love it. And I'm, yeah, I agree a hundred percent.
Nicole: So there’s definitely something in the air.
Douglas: Yeah. There is something in the air. And was I supposed to talk [00:27:00] about B0ardside? What am I supposed to be talking about now?
Nicole: Just like if you could tell us how you got involved with B0ardside and what y'all are doing now, that'd be great.
Douglas: Right. I thought I knew there was something I was supposed to be saying, other than like life, the universe and everything. But, so B0ardside, which is spelled B-0-A-R-D-S-I-D-E, which I sometimes, just as a shorthand explain to people, yeah, it has to do with surfing. Really doesn't. It's a transposition of Thorsten Sideboard's last name and sideboard is the British word for sideburns. Now, Thorsten is Scottish. He's from Glasgow. And he's got great sideboards. And so, that became his name. And so, we just decided that the collective was going to be B0ardside, Anyway, so he and I met somewhere, somehow, and we were just destined to meet, I suppose. Thorsten is a remarkable soul for those of you who listen [00:28:00] to the great podcast that you did with him will know. And Thorsten is many things. Thorsten is a Google Music maven and a coder there. Thorsten is a, an important figure in the algorithmic music scene. which is sort of a coded digital music that is often unlike anything that you have ever heard in your life or thought you were capable of hearing. It's just, it's really, really interesting. It can be really strange and wonderful. He actually also has a podcast of his own called Low Life, oh my gosh, what’s his podcast called? High Point, Low Life. And so, if you want to hear some interesting music, listen to that. Find that wherever you find your podcasts.
Thorsten is also a very talented artist and particularly in cartoonists. He loves, in cartoons, he loves comics and, and creating comics art. And so, we got to talking over a beer in this very same backyard at 45th and Moraga, where he lives. [00:29:00] He had just bought the house a while before. And was talking about how he had a very fond memories of the, of the digital music, of the underground music scene that he was really part of in the ‘90s downtown. And how he was sad that San Francisco seemed to have changed and lost a lot of its underground art scene and it's more bohemian feeling. And I countered by saying that I was part of the art scene more in the ‘80s, when I was really getting my sculpture work in and was apprenticing with a sculpture. Sculptor and I was not apprenticing with a sculpture. I was apprenticing with a sculptor in SOMA. And, and was part of the, part of the art scene then and going to a lot of Mark Pauline's Survival Research Laboratory events and so forth. And just, I missed that. I missed the underground artsy San Francisco of the ‘80s.
So, we're sitting around, looking at our indoor beers, we gotta [00:30:00] bring it back. So, we thought, let's, you know, let's form a collective. Yay. So B0ardside was born. And we thought we would have events in his backyard, which he had wanted to do, art events, music events. And then, why don't we do a zine? Because that's also a very ‘80s, ‘90s thing.
Douglas: You know, you think of these sort of punk rockers putting together zines at two in the morning at Kinko's. Just kind of scotch taping them together and xeroxing them. Just putting them out. You know, zines called like Thrash and it's like safety pins in it and it's just, but it's cool. It's just edgy. It's creative. It's of the moment. And it's really pushing a, a boundary of, of category of style of, and it's really capturing the edgy gestalt of that time. And so, we are doing several things. We are having events in his backyard space at Thorsten's bright red house right at the [00:31:00] corner of 45th and Moraga. They are one day music, art, and zine release events. And the next one is actually on, looking at my notes, it's on Saturday, February, excuse me, Saturday, September 23rd, from 12 to 6. So, you just show up and we're going to have, we're going to have art by the really talented digital artist Sean Russell Hallowell, who does wonderful digital video art and music, that's all is like a bunch of TV monitors that we're going to have scattered around our event space. And it's unlike anything you've ever seen. So, that's going to be one of a kind visual thing. And then, we'd have a number of musical acts from electronic artists, electronic music artists, to our [00:32:00] headliner, which is Fuck Wolf, and they are, they are a very popular up and coming local band who are about to release their first CD after being together for almost 20 years. That should be a lot of fun. They're a great, high energy wonderful band and it's, it's always a great way to cap the afternoon. And, and I, as I say, it's our zine release party. We put together a wonderful zine of West side art and culture. I like to call it art and culture at the edge of the world as a subtitle, but the guys said that’s a little bit, poo pooed that. But the zine is titled B0ardside.
Douglas: So that's cool. And we've got everything from fiction to poetry, to West side history, to arts and culture interviews, to comics and art, and even sheet music. You'll never know what you'll [00:33:00] find. So it's, it's wonderful how much variety and novelty we pack into this little zine. And we are about to release our sixth issue. And this is going to be the best yet.
And we have quite a lot happening with B0ardside actually this fall, because we're next going to be at, we're going to appear at another event that's taking place, not our own, but it's called Stoke Fest. And it's a celebration of the Great Highway park. That's happening in November, on November, Saturday, November 11th. So, we'll, and that's going to be all things West side, all things Great Highway park, and we're going to have a big booth there, including a, a sketch zone. A zine zone rather. Where there are going to be a couple of very talented artists. Zareen Choudhury and Alison Cowell, who are also Sunset Sketchers, to kind of link up my various interests, who are going to be showing you how [00:34:00] to make your own little zine, your own little comic, out of an eight and a half by eleven piece of paper in no time flat. So, that's always a very popular thing. We have, as well, we'll be releasing the next issue of B0ardside, which will be B0ardside 7. So, we are editorially very busy at the moment. That was a mouthful. And I just wanted to give you a sense of what's coming up with B0ardside.
And it's a really, it's really fun to be part of a collective. We all bring different skills and backgrounds to it. Since founding B0ardside, Thorsten and I have brought on Brent Wilson, who I mentioned earlier, who is a very talented painter and gallerist, he helps a lot in that sense, and musician. He's actually a front man of a couple, two or three different bands. He just got back from a tour of Europe. Spain, anyway. And, and then, then we also brought aboard Thomas Boytel. Beutel, [00:35:00] sorry. Thomas is a, a local, his, his day job is a programmer, but he's really creative. He is, he does art. He builds models. He builds things that are kind of in between little animatronic constructions. And he's just, has an amazing creative mind and also has a podcast of his own about creativity that is worth listening to.
Nicole: He’s my neighbor. Like I, we can see each other's houses from our windows.
Douglas: Oh, great.
Nicole: I love him so much. It makes me feel so good to, to be living near him and his wonderful family, you know, like, cause I live alone and like, it gets weird sometimes. But I'm like, it's okay, Thomas is right there.
Douglas: He's a wonderful, wonderful guy. He's just so kind. And yeah, and he, like all of us, he brings a wonderful content to, to the zines. He's particularly interested in West side history. He did a great feature on the on the last [00:36:00] duel that was ever fought in California, which was actually fought near on, basically on the shores of Lake Merced. And he's also working on a feature about the Rousseau brothers and a lot of drama that happened with them. They're one of the other builders, like the Doelger brothers who built many of the more fanciful homes here in the Avenues.
Nicole: We have a whole podcast on the Rousseau’s colorful…
Douglas: Yeah, that’s right.
Nicole: It's so good and Thomas actually just lent me a book all about the duel that is on my reading pile that I need to read. But, but yeah, which is like another way to show what a wonderful community this is. Like, just to keep bringing it on back to that. Like there's, I'm just so grateful that WNP somehow, well not somehow, I pushed the organization into this, but we know we're right in the middle of all these amazing artists and like arts activities that all center history. Like I see all of you thinking critically about this neighborhood and where it's been and where it can go and what it is now. And I [00:37:00] see the history of the West side coming out in all of your art in such beautiful ways. And I'm so grateful that we get to help with that and be part of the conversation and that you've all been so welcoming to a bunch of us, you know, old fogey historian types.
Douglas: Well, thank you. Thank you so much and, in return, I mean, for having me on, Thorsten on, for having other artists and create creative people on the podcast. And I, you're really hitting on how, how much collaboration, what a wonderful collaborative spirit there is here between all these different artistic, cultural, historical organizations. It's almost like, it's almost like one big cultural network and you have different little subgroups that are specializing in this and that, but everyone seems to know everyone and is very supportive of what the other parties doing.
Nicole: Yeah, I mean, it drives me nuts when science is over in one corner and art is in one corner and [00:38:00] history is over here and like, it makes no sense. It's all part of the same soup, you know?
Douglas: I know.
Nicole: And like, and it seems like the West side got that message a lot earlier than not. This isn't a podcast about throwing shade to the rest of the city. I'm so sorry. It's kind of devolving to that, but like, there's this bohemian atmosphere. It's been a central part of the West side since the West side was founded and…
Douglas: That’s true.
Nicole: Brought into proper. So, it's alive and well out here because of people like you, Doug.
Douglas: Well, I'm just so honored and surprised when I, I find myself, when anybody recognizes me or my art. And it's, it's always a pleasure and always a very special feeling. And, you know, I think we're, I think out here on the West side, we're, it's a little bit of a village feeling. That was certainly what I felt like when I moved to 48th and Pacheco. It's essentially, you're living on the beach. I mean, you're half a block from the beach and they're just, [00:39:00] I just felt that there was a, there was more of a neighborly community kind of connection there that I didn't find so much when I was living, I mean, I love all parts of San Francisco, but what I didn't find so much when I was living on, growing up at Telegraph Hill or living in the Mission or other parts of the city that I lived in. Because it's more, I mean, old Sunsetters or even kids growing up in the Sunset say when they go, you know, they take the N downtown. It's like, well, I'm going to the city. So you're in San Francisco. But I see what they mean. It's just it's a different thing there. It's a different energy and people have more, they're a little more guarded and there's city stuff that happens. But here we are, at once we don't face a lot of the, maybe the stressors, the big city stressors that you face if you're living downtown. But also, particularly when you're living really far out in the Avenues. It's [00:40:00] also a feeling of cushion. Kind of out here, aren't I? It's a, is this a fire? Are they going to come? Are the police going to come? We're pretty far away. And so, I think there's that feeling of just looking the one side and seeing just the Pacific and the beach and just feeling like, wow, I really gotta pull together here and support each other. And I think that, that spirit extends a little bit to either that or the kind of the village mentality to the arts and culture community here. People are really just, it's easier and more, more likely for people to work together and support each other.
Nicole: Get to your point. We're at the edge of the Western world, right? We got to stick together.
Douglas: Yeah, that's it.
Nicole: So, I have some prearranged questions for you.
Nicole: As long as you feel like we're at a good stopping point and we can get to…
Douglas: I thought, I thought maybe just to touch on my own art, [00:41:00] which I'm really…
Nicole: Oh yeah.
Douglas: I’m really positively evangelistic about the Sunset Sketchers and about B0ardside. I just want everyone to get involved. You know, people will come by and we'll say, and they ask what we're doing and then we'll say, yeah, do you sketch? Oh God, I can't, I haven't done that since third grade. But you were doing it in third grade, weren't you? Well, yeah, but then, you know, and you give them a pencil and before you know it, they're sketching in there and we've had some people who've become regulars. And I really started an urban sketching practice just by, by seeing us. So that's a cool feeling, but to talk about me for a moment.
Douglas: I just, if people want to find out about, if they want to see my art, they can do so on the Instagram @OuterAvenuesArt. One word or on my website, which is Gorney.studio. My name is spelled G-O-R-N-E-Y and that's not dot com. It's dot studio. [00:42:00] And I have a portfolio page and a page you can buy prints and originals that I've done in the Sunset and throughout the city. And contact me if you're interested in doing a commission or you just wanna say hi. So that's my spiel about me.
Nicole: What's your favorite thing to draw or like create. Like what's, if you're like, if I could draw one subject for the rest of my life, it would be?
Douglas: You know, we, one thing that we at the Sunset Sketchers have been doing as a regular fixture of our monthly calendar is going to the, I've got a good guest for you by the way.
Douglas: Going to the SFOB Hot Rods Customs Classics Meet on the Great Highway between Lincoln and Beach Chalet. In the parking lot there every Sunday morning between 7 and 11, there's the greatest collection of cool old cars. Everything from showpieces to outlandish customs and lowriders. Just kind of everyday [00:43:00] drivers, but from the ‘70s or ‘60s or even 1930s. And, and this community of car people, mostly they're car guys, but there are car women too, and they, they have been meeting at these things, some of them for years and years, and it's such a friendly community and a very different kind of scene and energy that you find in San Francisco. So, we love that and we've been going there and sketching every third Sunday it happens of the month. So, we always are there. And I, when I was growing up, the first thing that I really liked to draw was cars. I thought I was going to be a car designer, as I mentioned earlier. And I kind of rekindled that love of car design, of car visuals. And I've, it took a while to sort of, but I really do, I really do enjoy drawing cars. I mean, I, it's like, I like drawing everything. Victorians, maybe not so much, cause they're really complex. But Doelger homes are cool. And, of course, [00:44:00] people, the wonderful people of the West side, but old cars are, are really fun to draw and paint.
Nicole: We should talk offline, because my grandfather was a creative art director, and he did a lot of like car advertisements back in Detroit in the 1940s and ‘50s. So, we'll talk about that offline.
Douglas: And the organizer of the SFOB Hot Rods Custom Classics, his name is Tony Ulloa, who we're actually, I've interviewed for, for B0ardside, and we're going to have an interview with him along with the sketches done with the Sunset Sketchers by my very talented friend, Matt Wills, of the, of those cars. He, yeah, he's all about bringing car culture back to, back to San Francisco and just, and then sort of, it's a very historical look at the San Francisco that used to be in the car scene that they used to have out here in the ‘50s and ‘60s, when they'd have drag races up and down the Great Highway and so forth. Maybe not the most popular use of the Great Highway these days, [00:45:00] but it's a scene and it's a thing.
Nicole: I know. One of my most unpopular opinions is I would like to see like official controlled drag races with the old cars on Great Highway. Like close it down, make it safe, make sure people are very far away and we've got emergency crews nearby. Oh my god, people get so mad at me when I say that.
Douglas: Nicole, I am loving it. And the Sunset Skechers will be there. I guarantee that.
Nicole: Oh my gosh. But not everyone hates that idea. The, my car, the car people love it. But like, by and large, not a popular opinion.
Douglas: I understand. Also before, don't hate I am, I, I love the Great Highway park. The great walkway. Love walking it every, in fact, every time we do, the, we go to the, the car meet, I'll then walk up the Great Highway and, of course, it's Sunday morning. So, I'm then walking on the walkable part of the Great Highway and loving it. I think this is [00:46:00] fantastic. This is wonderful. And I will walk from there to Ortega and then go to the farmer's market. But yeah, I love it. I think it's great. You know, love the old cars. You know, it's all good. I just like everything out here. And I understand that these different communities have different views. And you know, it's, that's life.
Nicole: Yeah, it is. And before we move on to the Barbara Walters section…
Nicole: I will say that Western Neighborhoods Project has no official opinion on whether or not Great Highway stays opened or closed. Moving on. Okay Doug, are you ready for these incredibly hard-hitting questions?
Douglas: Oh my gosh. All right. Okay. Let me get a drink of water here.
Nicole: Get ready. Okay, number one. What is the best meal you've ever eaten in San Francisco?
Douglas: Well, you know, you got to go with the, with a bean and cheese [00:47:00] burrito with avocado and the, definitely the hot sauce, the green sauce, at La Taqueria. I mean, I know it's almost trite, it's almost hackneyed to go to La Taqueria, but it's the taco. See, a lot of, that's the thing that a lot of people miss if I may just take a moment here, because the thing that a lot of people miss about La Taqueria is they go for the burrito, which yes, okay, fine. They don't have rice and that's a thing. That's cool. But the tacos there, it's a Taqueria, it's called La Taqueria and their tacos are the most perfectly constructed tacos in the city. I will die on that hill. And they are not only perfectly constructed, of course, the wonderful ingredients they have there. I mean, I know their, their carne asada is famed and that's wonderful. But just the, just the bean and cheese burrito, get the avocado, get that green sauce, cause it's the best. Get two of them. Get the Agua Fresca, mango, [00:48:00] strawberry, and you'll be set.
Nicole: Ah, Agua Fresca sounds so great right now, because it's 400 degrees in my house.
Douglas: Oh yeah.
Nicole: That's a great answer, Doug. Well done. Number two, what is your favorite place in San Francisco? The one place you return to again and again?
Douglas: I am torn. I'm gonna, okay I'm gonna pick, I'm gonna get two answers at two opposite ends of the city.
Douglas: And the one end of the city is where I grew up, on Telegraph Hill. And I'm really partial to the Filbert Steps, and particularly to Napier Lane, which goes off the Filbert Steps. That is the intersection of Napier Lane and Filbert Steps, really where the wild parrots of Telegraph Hill have traditionally hung out. Now they've kind of spread out all over the place. And they're, they are fond of the Embarcadero Center. But anyway, I grew up before parrots were even invented and [00:49:00] it's just so charming. And so, you know, it's, it's, talk about history, it's in these old sea captains cottages and the wonderful Grace Marchant Gardens, which are cascading all over everything and these old bleach wooden steps and it's just a place out of time. It's really magical.
And then, yeah, for my current life in the Western part of the city, you know, it's hard to beat Ocean Beach. It's not, it's pretty basic answer, but there's nothing like walking on, you know, and they have the, the slow streets. I understand not everyone was a fan of slow streets. I understand that. But it was kind of fun to walk on Kirkham, which was a slow street, just all the way down to the Great Highway. And then you could walk on the Great Highway all the way practically to, all the way to Fort Funston. And that's, just to be able to do [00:50:00] that is an incredible thing. That feeling of, of just your, as you say, on the edge of the Western world. And it's so, it just will expand your, it'll clear your mind and expand your awareness and just make you a different person who's doing that. So that's my answer.
Nicole: I live on Kirkham and I went out of town and I came back and they had removed the slow street while I was gone and I was like what? I wasn’t gone that long. This happened. Anyways, again, we have no official opinion on this.
Douglas: We have no official opinion. Yeah, it was, you know, it was nice to, particularly during the trough of the Pando, you know, it was good to be able to get out and walk someplace that was deemed to be safe and walkable. So, I appreciated that. You know, and I understand the rationale of not having it, but that's just saying it's a nice street. Kirkham's a really nice street.
Nicole: I like it. It serves me well, obviously. Okay, number three, where, what is the one thing out of towners [00:51:00] shouldn't miss? Like, where do you take people when they visit?
Douglas: Right. Well, I will again, I'm going to give two answers reflecting different parts of my life, different periods of my life in San Francisco. One is to take them, take people and walk them kind of the length of Grant Avenue through Bohemia, North Beach, you know? The sort of the, the beatnik city lights part of North Beach of Grant Avenue to the Chinatown part of Grant Avenue to right into downtown. At downtown these days, Union Square has lost a bit of its luster. It's true, but this is that has been a go to answer for a long time. So maybe I have to revisit part of that. Anyway, coming out to the West side, which I think is a little bit more safe. It's really neat to take people on the Lands End walk. To start from the San Francisco Memorial, which is a riveting very visceral part of history. You talk about making history real. Go to that monument and run your hands [00:52:00] along the gaping holes, rent in the metal of the bridge of the USS San Francisco, and you will really literally feel history. Wow.
Douglas: So, go from there and then catch the Lands End Trail. And walk all the way to, to Lincoln Park and the Lincoln Park Golf Course. It's short, but just dramatically beautiful and you will feel like you are nowhere near a city. So, yeah, that's on my list.
Nicole: Oh, you're good at this, Douglas. Okay, number four is, what's one San Francisco thing you would bring back if you could?
Douglas: Oh, wow, there's so many of them. We've lost so many great bookstores. We've lost so many great restaurants. You had actually told me about this question beforehand and I wish I'd thought about it a little more carefully, but, you know, for, for those of us who grew up in San Francisco we, particularly of a certain age, [00:53:00] we tend to look back at a lot of things that are really special in our childhood. And I have to say that the most, one of the most magical places for me growing up was the Hippopotamus. Which was a hamburger restaurant on Van Ness near Pacific. And I think it was Van Ness at Pacific, if I'm not mistaken and, maybe at Broadway. Anyway, I don't even eat hamburgers anymore, and I miss that place. It was huge, and all the more so when you're like, you know, six years old. But, and the big shiny brass canopy in the middle over the central grill and they had their restaurant, their menu was famously long. Literally long. Like really for those of you listening, I'm holding my hands like about a yard apart. It was this big, long menu and there were just all these burgers. And the burger names are very funny and very creative. Like there was the Nude Burger and the, the Monte Carlo Burger and the, the, oh, [00:54:00] there were lots of funny names. But they were yeah, they're really good. And the Hippo Shake, which was chocolate and vanilla and a little bit of coffee. And it was just a really fun, magical place and everybody loved it and a real destination. So that's maybe not the most important answer, but it's just what came to mind.
Nicole: I love it. I, San Francisco really needs to up its game on like old school affordable diners and hamburgers.
Douglas: It does. Absolutely affordable anything, but yeah.
Nicole: We’ve lost too many. Lucky Penny still haunts me, because I, we, I drive by all the time and it's still there, but it's just an empty husk of a Lucky Penny. Anyways.
Douglas: Another one is the U.S. restaurant, which whose most recent incarnation failed a year or two ago. And there, they were on a, they were in a little corner on Columbus, which is a slanty street, of course. They had one of the corner, corner settings with this, you know, really, [00:55:00] so it was a really narrow triangle of a restaurant. But their pesto pasta, and this was just a, an almost diner kind of place, just real old school. It's on North beach, their pesto, chef's kiss.
Nicole: It's a real toss up whether Italian food or Mexican food are my favorite, but you've hit both in this section, so I'm with you, Doug. All right, number five is maybe the most important or relevant to the West side history podcast, which is, why do you think history is important?
Douglas: Well, I, it's, we live in a time of great, great change, great tumult, and great conflict. And I think that, as a historian, and having, like I've read this book before, I've seen this movie before, so many of [00:56:00] the conflicts, and now we've gone from West side to like global, but so many of the, the conflicts that you see in the world, well, they're all different, but so many of them are basically seem to be variations of regional conflicts, global conflicts that we've had before. And we just wish that the lessons of history, which we learned could be applied. And yeah, I think also to, to be a more, to answer that question more locally, I think, while, while San Francisco is accused, rightly, of being a very NIMBY place and being a bit precious about itself, from its, from the character of its neighborhoods, quote unquote, to the architecture, to some of the, some even of the beloved institutions that I have lamented the passing of in your previous question, I think we [00:57:00] can also be so resistant to change, that we are, we can be in danger of maybe making ourselves a bit irrelevant in the global sphere. And also certainly, and maybe more importantly of keeping people out. Of being exclusive of making it very, because it's precious, making it also expensive, too expensive, too unaffordable, too inaccessible. So, that almost would seem to run against history, but I think it's important to understand the broader scope of San Francisco history and understand that this is a very dynamic, has always been a very dynamic city. A very dynamic community. Look at our flag, and yes, I understand that people want to redesign the [00:58:00] flag, okay, I have no opinion on that, but currently, there's a phoenix on it.
Douglas: And the phoenix on it because in the late 19th century, this city burned down and was built up repeatedly, even before 1906.
Douglas: I'm sure I'm rehashing stuff that's been discussed the enumerable times on the Western Neighborhoods Project. But so, it was a, a town that was literally destroyed and rebuilt many times. A town, a rough and tumble town, a tough town, you know. Hoodlum is a word that was invented here. Getting Shanghaied, that's a concept that was coined here. And we had, you know, it's, this is a town with rough, rough edges and raw knuckles and, and a lot of wild stuff has happened here. And all of that centered on the constant undercurrent of change, of physical change, earthquakes and fire, of [00:59:00] social change. Some of it good. Some of it not so good. So, I just, I wish that we could, I understand that San Francisco is not, it's not so much a, it's not so much a little thing in a snow globe, like, or something carved in amber or sealed in amber. But that it's a river of constant change. This is here. That is here. This is going to be different tomorrow and a new thing is starting and it's exciting and it's cool. And that's, that’s I think what really makes that and not the Victorians. And I love, even though they're hard to draw, I love Victorians and I love cable cars. And I certainly hope they don't go away, but I just think that change is not necessarily a bad thing. Particularly when it's viewed against the great, the great story, the epic story that is the history of San Francisco. I just, you know, I've, as a [01:00:00] historian, I don't know of any city that has a more exciting, a wild history to study within a fairly short period of time. So yeah, study your history and you'll enjoy San Francisco as the dynamic creative entity that it is.
Nicole: That is a wonderful answer. Thank you so much, Douglas. And now we're moving into all of the, it's the business end of the WNP podcast, which Doug you're welcome to stick around for. You’re also welcome to…
Douglas: I’d love to see you, I'd like to see how it's done. Get it done.
Nicole: Okay. If you become a guest of the WNP podcast, you get to see me cold read paragraphs and paragraphs of text. So, so here we go. Let's do it. Doug is with us because now it's time for listener mail.
So normally Arnold Woods, my beloved co-host, asks me, how does one send us [01:01:00] listener mail? And then I answer, you just send it to us via email, firstname.lastname@example.org, or you can add an “S” to podcast because people kept doing that and it couldn't get through to us. And so, we got that email too. So podcast, podcasts@outsidelandsorg. Either way, it'll get to us. Send us comments about tonight's podcast or send us recommendations for further ones. Doug has tons of folks he's going to bring on the podcast next. Which is wonderful. We love that. You can also take advantage of our social media presence. We are on Instagram, Twitter, or whatever we're calling it now and Facebook. And we have a lovely volunteer who's trying to get us on TikTok and Threads. So, you know, WNP may go global one day. I'm not quite sure, but you can post a podcast comment on any of those channels and maybe in the future, other channels to boot.
And after listening to episode number 484 on the MacArthur Tunnel, Joseph wrote in to [01:02:00] say, “I really enjoyed this podcast. My father worked for Macco Construction. He was a foreman and did Doyle Drive, Robin Williams Rainbow Tunnel, MacArthur Tunnel, Waldo Grade, Park Presidio, and 101 from Candlestick to South San Francisco. And finally, I have the story on the bridge approaches. Great history.” So that's wonderful. Thank you, Joseph. We love hearing when people personally identify with our podcasts. It's literally why we exist. So, remember to send in your comments as well.
And now I'm going to tell you about the benefits of membership and donating. And I'm going to zoom through these and I probably cut off Ian's amazing transition here as well, cause I always forget. But, but you look, you've listened to us for a long time now. I hope if this is the first WNP podcast you've ever listened to though, and you're like, what is a WNP, well, I can tell you. If you [01:03:00] support us financially at just $50 a year to become a full-fledged member, which is quite the deal these days, especially with inflation and all the crazy stuff going on, or if you just donate $5 a month, that works too. Whatever way you want to do it. You get perks like a quarterly membership magazine, which we will send you in paper form if you ask us to. And you get discounts on events and other kinds of exclusive perks. Now those discounts and this podcast are the two things that we hear that people use, like it incentivizes people to join WNP the most because they're solid products, guys.
And remember your membership supports all these things that we make for free. We've got OpenSFHistory, which is our treasure trove of historical photos, over 50,000 strong so far online. You can download them at really high resolution and use them however you want. We don't get in your business about that. There's the Cliff House collection, which is exceedingly expensive to care [01:04:00] for and store. Which maybe is obvious since we now own a totem pole. But, you know, your membership helps us deal with the totem pole, which is really something folks, let me tell you. And, of course, this podcast, right? You get a weekly dose of neighborhood history and we don't charge you a single dime for it. So please become a member or just donate if you're not like the joining type, which I totally respect. You can donate at any level, and it really does have a huge impact on our tiny nonprofit.
And with that behind us, we can move into announcements! So, I'm very excited to tell you all that board member Lindsey Hanson and our dear history friend Gary Parks are really hard at work curating our next window exhibition, all about the Alexandria Theater to celebrate its 100th anniversary this year. We'll be sharing the landmark's history and what's happening with its preservation, highlighting all the people and nonprofits fighting to save this [01:05:00] regal old gal right now. And that fight is getting a little spicy with Supervisor Connie Chan leading the way to get the building formally landmarked against the property owner's wishes. And, you know, we're not an advocacy organization, but we're very excited to support the San Francisco Neighborhood Theater Foundation and San Francisco Heritage and their efforts to finally get what's properly due to this incredible property. So, we're keeping an eye on that and we're celebrating her, starting with this exhibition and going all year long. We're collaborating with a ton of different nonprofits, and it will culminate in November on the Alexandria's birthday on November 26th with a big event at the Balboa Theater. Thanks to Adam Bergeron at CinemaSF. So, keep an eye out for that listing that's coming soon.
And as we're heading into the last quarter of the year. We have some epic events coming your way and we have our history walks like always and they're wonderful. John Martini is the best, but we have a couple of shows coming up at the [01:06:00] Balboa that are really going to be fun, including our first ever Shipwreck Week in October, which is going to be so epic you guys. We're going to have a happy hour. TBD, I'm locking in that location. We're going to have new content dropping, a new video drops, new article drops, special podcasts recorded to celebrate Shipwreck Week. And, you know, remember the lives lost as well, but it's going to be really fun. And then the crème de la creme is going to be a huge event at the Balboa theater with the foremost maritime archeologists in the world, Jim Delgado, talking to two of his super long-time buddies, because they all started out together at the Golden Gate National Recreation Area. He'll be on stage with John Martini and Steve Howler and I'm going to feed them whiskey all night and you're going to get to ask them questions and it's going to be so much fun just talking about all the shipwrecks they've worked on over the years.
So go to our website, outsidelands.org, where you can sign up for our monthly newsletter to be the [01:07:00] first in the know, or there's an events tab on our website, or you can also join over 400 followers of our Eventbrite now. And like, literally when we add an event there, you get an email. So, you really will be the first people to know when our new events drop.
And with that, I don't think I have any other announcements other than we're continuing to work hard for y'all and bring you local history. And that lines up perfectly with my preview for next week, which is, Doug keeps trying to remind me to stop and I just get on a roll and I totally forget our preview for next week. Well, I'm not sure what we'll have lined up for next week, to be honest, but I'm sure that there will be a next week. So, until next time, I'm Nicole Meldahl, and this has been another episode of Outside Lands San Francisco, podcast of Western Neighborhoods Project. Doug, thank you for being with us today.
Douglas: Thank you so much for having me, Nicole. It was a lot of [01:08:00] fun.
Nicole: This was super fun. We'll have to get a beer sometime and just keep chatting.
Douglas: Let's do it. Am I being recorded now?
Nicole: You are. You are…
Douglas: We haven't, I mean, is this, are we going to have a, is everyone on the podcast going to join us for a beer?
Nicole: Yeah, we'll see you at the Riptide.
Nicole: So, thanks for being with us history friends, and I guess we're going to see you for a beer soon.
Nicole: Have a great night.
Ian: Outside Lands San Francisco is recorded by Ian Hadley. Content creation and media production at ihadley.com.
Nicole: To learn more about the Western Neighborhoods Project and more on San Francisco history, go to Outsidelands.org. You can also find us on social media at Facebook, which is outsidelands with an S, at Twitter, which is outsidelandz with a Z, and on Instagram, which is outsidelandz, also with a Z. And check out our historic San Francisco images [01:09:00] website at OpenSFHistory.org.