Podcast Transcription

WNP474 – Reino Niemela, Jr.

Nicole: [00:00:00] It’s Outside Lands San Francisco, podcast of the Western Neighborhoods Project. I'm Nicole Meldahl. And I hope you've enjoyed the last two weeks of Playland Memories and thank you again to everyone who contributed to those last two podcasts. We received so many comments about how fun they were and I really couldn't agree more. So, we are gonna keep this Playland party going to commemorate the 50th anniversary of its closing with another podcast episode featuring a very special guest. Would that special guest like to introduce himself?

Reino: Sure. My name's Reino Niemela, Jr. My dad was working at Playland for over 30 years as a sign painter and artist.

Nicole: Welcome Reno. Yes, your dad was a critical component of Playland. In [00:01:00] fact, I've argued that maybe he's the guy who gave the entire amusement zone it's iconic look. And we have so many of your dad's pieces on display in Naiad Cove that I thought we need to give you your own podcast to sort of dig into your family's history. So, if you're ready to do that, I'm ready to do that.

Reino: Sounds good. Ok, I think we're ready.

Nicole: Thanks for being here, Reino. So, let's start off like really early with your family. What's your family's background, like, how did they get to San Francisco?

Reino: Well, my father was born in San Francisco, so I'm a second generation native. My mother came from Illinois. She came out with her brother during World War II and she worked at the Richmond Shipyards. She was a part of the Rosie Riveter crew for a while.

Nicole: Do you have her little badge that has her photo on it?

Reino: No, unfortunately she told me she threw it away.

Nicole: Oh no.

Reino: I didn't get a chance to ask her actually how long she was there, but she did tell me she was, she was only five foot two, so [00:02:00] she could get into small spaces where she could do the welding and stuff, so…

Nicole: Do you know if she worked on any like planes or was there something specific that she worked on?

Reino: She worked on the ships in the shipyard up in Richmond. Yeah.

Nicole: Yep. Yeah, that makes sense. And your grandfather was from Finland, right?

Reino: My grandfather came from Finland in the early 1900s, and he came to San Francisco around 1907-1908. He was a carpenter, so there was plenty of work to rebuild after the 1906 earthquake.

Nicole: So, a lot of folks in your family are makers, they're able to make things with their hands really well. And, of course, that's your dad's history too. So, what neighborhood did your dad grow up in?

Reino: He grew up in basically Eureka Valley, or people call that the Castro District now. Or Upper Market. He used to refer to it as Upper Market. I tell people, oh, I'm about seven, seven blocks from corner of 18th and Castro. Everybody knows where that's at, where the Castro Theater's at. My dad said he went there to the Castro Theater cause it opened in [00:03:00] 1922, which is the same year my grandfather built his house. So, it's the house I'm living in now, so it's a hundred years within the same family.

Nicole: Oh my gosh. That is that's music to our ears cause so many homes are changing hands now and things are happening to them. So, I love that you live in your family home. It's so amazing. And your dad went to school in the Mission District if I recall.

Reino: They went to Mission High School. Yes. I understand he actually, I think he helped design the school logo.

Nicole: Ah, what was their mascot? Wasn't it a bear?

Reino: I think it’s the Mission Bears, I think. Yeah. I think I, I found out when I, the last month or so, I've been finding new things I found in papers I found in a trunk. I found a letter when he won an art contest for designing a poster. It was a nationwide poster. There were a bunch of different winners, but he was one of them. There was a letter from the superintendent of San Francisco, and I also believe from the state superintendent of California congratulating him on winning a poster.

Nicole: So, your dad's making art at a really [00:04:00] young age. Do you know why he started making art? Was it just something? It was, it, was it for this contest or…

Reino: He'd done art before that because I also discovered there's a picture of him in a newspaper when he is seven years old with him, with one of his drawings. So, I guess he picked up, the art came to him from an early age. Yeah.

Nicole: And you, so he, he graduates from Mission High School. And where did he go from there?

Reino: I'm not sure exactly where he went to. I know he was working at a hardware store, downtown San Francisco where I think he made those, he used to have little signs on the bins for things. He used to make ‘em with a pen. Ink pen. And then I know he was, he might have worked for the Golden Gate Theater for a little bit cause I did find like a pay stub from there. These papers are amazing papers I've been finding, didn't even know they existed, didn't see them until a month ago. And then he also worked for Fuller sign painting company and I guess that's maybe how he got into sign painting. And unfortunately [00:05:00] I don't really have the story about how he winds up working the Playland. But he was there around 1938-‘39, cause I remember he said he helped work on some exhibits that Whitney Brothers had at the 1939 World’s Fair on Treasure Island.

Nicole: That's right. The Whitneys would bring things that they found either the whole ride or they would recreate the ride at Playland at the Beach when the, something caught their eye, like the Diving Bell, which we've got simulated in the museum. That was an, an exhibition at Treasure Island and they brought it back to Playland. So, your dad was all part of that process and helping to build up rides and give them a look, help to design the park, right?

Reino: He did a lot of the design. I found a lot of his, the big billboards that you see in some of the books about history. I, I knew he had the little drawings in miniature before he made them big. And I finally found some of them. I didn't know if they were still around. So, this neat. And some of 'em I see in the book and I go, yeah, here's the little picture of it. I showed him some of 'em to you.

Nicole: And that's kind of how we met. At least [00:06:00] you and I personally, we had an exhibition opening of things we acquired from the Cliff House auction at our office. And you walked in and you pointed to a hand painted street car sign for Sutro Baths when it was an ice-skating rink. And you said, yeah, my dad painted that.

Reino: Yeah, it looked like it was a silk screen thing. I think it was on the front of the cars. There's also the picture of a merry-go-round horse that had, which is on a t-shirt that somebody's selling. I bought one, but I'm pretty sure it's my dad's design cause I can tell his caricature, his style of his artwork.

Nicole: Yeah. And your dad does have a very distinct look. Can you maybe explain that look for us a little bit?

Reino: I'm not sure how to explain it. He is really good at just making image look like it's, something like's real, but it is not quite cartoonish. But you can almost see that it's real, the image, it looks like what it looks like to me.

Nicole: Yeah. It is. It does have a, it has a playful quality to it but all of the lettering is very clear and very distinct. You can tell it was made [00:07:00] by your dad. You also have, there's, and not all of them, but a lot of your dad's works, there's a union stamp, right? He was part of the union, right?

Reino: Yeah. And something I just found, I didn't show you the other day, is I had, he had this little shop card that says this is a union shop. And he had that up in the shop. He's very proud about being in Local 510. In fact, I was working at Home Depot and I ran into a guy there that was about my same age and we talked about where he went to school and where, and then he, oh my dad worked at the beach. He, his dad was a painter. I asked was he union 510? He said, yeah. So, it was great coincidence.

Nicole: And your dad had an office right behind Playland. Can you explain where his office was?

Reino: Well, it was part of the, there was a bar there called the Gables Bar. And one door led to the bar and the other door, under the other Gable was, went into my dad's shop. And faced back in the back of those room, his shop, you can look out a [00:08:00] window and you saw the Fun Tier Town train where it went through the little town that was made in the back.

Nicole: And speaking of Fun Tier Town. So, it's been really fun working with you. You always have stories to tell, but you just keep bringing pieces into the museum. There are huge pieces on display. There are small paper items on display as well. But, of course, one of the big artifacts that we saved at the auction, the Cliff House auction, is the Fun Tier Town cowboy, whose official name is Sheriff C.U. Soon. And we didn't know who designed him, although I had some ideas about who designed them, who designed him. And then you brought me the smoking gun. What did you bring in for me?

Reino: I found the conception drawing of him and at the bottom it had Laurie Hollings name and a date on it for Fun Tier Town. I was, I almost fell over myself when I found that I unfolded this paper, what it was. That's the cowboy and it looks exactly like he does in the statue. [00:09:00]

Nicole: It is, it was so cool. And you were such a good sport. Reino brought it when we were having a party at the Cliff House, a projection party for Ben Wood's new projection out the side windows. And you were so sweet. You let me just walk you around and be like, oh my God, look what he just brought in.

Reino: Well, I knew you, I knew you would've gonna like it. Cause like you said, it tied directly into Lorrie Hollings. Cause I heard my dad mention his name a few times. Not so much in Fun Tier Town, but I remember talking about the limbo ride, the dark ride where my dad had all these concepts, scary drawings that were, that were in the ride apparently.

Nicole: Yeah. And you've been bringing some of those in to show us as well, which are just incredible. Like these concept drawings truly show your how wonderful of an artist your dad is that he had all of this fanta, this, this like fantastical Playland in his brain and that's why the imagery for the park is so incredibly immersive and wonderful. It seems like he [00:10:00] really thought through the visitor experience and was able to bring his artistry to play with that.

Reino: Right. Cause I remember, I, what, I guess he redesigned the Fun House and also the entrances off of where the bus turnaround was. I guess in the early ‘50s or something. And I have some of the concept drawings that he did for that. So, I knew, and he did like things dice and colorful and bright, cause he knew that would attract the people. And he used to tell me about signs. Well, if you don't make it like a big billboard, you gotta make it really big. Like I, later on when he was contracting after Playland was sold and the contract, the company took it over, he was, I helped him paint some of these big billboards. He would do the outline in the big letters, letters were six, eight feet tall. And then I would fill in this center parts. Just stay in the lines.

Nicole: Not bad work for a kid.

Reino: Yeah.

Nicole: And you're, so what's, the Whitneys are the name that are associated with Playland of course. They owned Playland the Beach. They eventually own the Cliff House and Sutro Baths. And when you hear stories told about Playland, [00:11:00] they always say, oh, the Whitneys did this. Oh, the Whitneys did that. And yes, they had ideas for things and they were the one, the sort of main management behind it. But really it was your dad and Laurie Hollings, who was also an amusement park designer who worked on at Disneyland with George Whitney Jr. And later in Frontier Town, or I'm sorry, Frontier Village down in San Jose. Those two men were responsible, so, for so much of the look of Playland, even though it was a Whitney idea, and I think that hasn't really been explored publicly before. So, it's wonderful that we're given a chance to shine a light on your dad and the work that he's, he did over the course of his life.

Reino: Yeah. It’s really great having a chance to share with people because it's been, some of it's just been in my garage and like I said, a lot of it I uncovered in the last month and a half. I just found in a trunk. I knew there was a trunk somewhere with, when I found one trunk and then I found another trunk who had more stuff in it. It's just amazing the stuff I [00:12:00] found. You know. And then my dad also used to get a people he knew working at some of his ride operators or running some of the games at Playland. And my uncle wound up working at Sutros driving. I didn't know if it was called a Zamboni then, but it looked like a Jeep that was fixed up. He drove that around to shave the ice between the sessions they had.

Nicole: And your dad, so he's working as a, as an employee of the Whitney's. But he also had some concessions at Playland, right?

Reino: Yes, he did. He had a game and it was, he started a game, I believe it was during the war. It was called Bomb Tokyo, where it was a dark game where you threw it and you got point, prize points so you could win a prize. So, I think the sailors could come in, they could win, something for their girlfriend of the day by, by winning the point tickets and get them a little kewpie doll or whatever kind of little things they had, and I found some of the targets, but I haven't been able to refine them. Recently there were like some, and some airplanes and some ships and stuff. But he told me he made [00:13:00] enough money off of that game in one year to buy his house. Of course, back then in the ‘40s, the house cost $5,000, but he was making much more money with his game than he was working for Whitney. In fact, I did find some of the pay stubs that, for his concession work, he got.

Nicole: Oh my gosh. Oh, your archive is the gift that keeps on giving. And your dad bought a house in Playland, right? Or I'm sorry, on Balboa Street.

Reino: Out on Balboa Street. I wasn't on the corner because on the corner was the gas station, the Richfield gas station before they came called Arco. So, I, everybody knew my house. It's next, Reino's house next to the one, next to the gas station. And I think I even got a postcard from my friend of mine who went on a trip and it was Reino Niemela, the house around the corner from the gas station. And it got to us back then. I wish I had that before. I don't have it, but yeah.

Nicole: Oh man. And growing up in the neighborhood, what was, what was the Richmond district like? We can [00:14:00] talk about your experiences at Playland too, but…

Reino: Oh yeah. I went to Lafayette Elementary School, which was on 37th. Actually, the front entrance is on about, and the street, but I always went in the, from the gate onto the yard. It was a great neighborhood. I, if I got past, I usually, I'd stay between 32nd Avenue and the beach. If I got past 25th Avenue, I'd consider myself to be downtown when I was a kid. Because we had, everything was in those few blocks. Like I said, next door was a gas station. Across the street was mom and pop grocery store called The Better Food Market, which is still there. My brother got a first job there, sorting soda bottles to go back to the manufacturers. And then I wound up working there a little later and my little brother became my boss. And then kitty corner there was another mom-and-pop gas station. So down at the block was the barber shop. there was the Rexall Drugstore where we used to go get for prescriptions or we used to take our film down there to get developed. You went back in a week and got it. You know, people don't understand how that works now. And [00:15:00] my dad had a lot of home movies. So, we take the movie down a week later, we get the movie back projected. We make popcorn and we have movie night watching our home movie. Then there was also the Balboa Theater. There were donut shops where I remember watching the guy in the back make the donuts and then flip them over to glazed donuts. There was a little pet shop where we used to get my food for my pets. I had, we had parakeets. I had goldfish. I had a little lizard one time, but my dad used to catch the flies for that to feed the lizard. I heard the guy own a pet shop, his name was Bill, and there's always this parrot in front of the store and he would, you could always talk to, the parrot would always be sitting around his perch and eating sunflower seeds.

Nicole: Yeah, it people really did stay in the neighborhood. There was no reason to go downtown. It was like those were fancy occasions when you went to fancy department stores or some other kind of like theater trip downtown, right?

Reino: Right. Yeah. That was, I remember my mom used [00:16:00] to get dressed up, we're going downtown shopping or going down to the dentist, which I didn't like going the dentist. And the thing I didn't like about the dentist was I think was at 450 Sutter, the big medical building.

Nicole: Yeah.

Reino: The elevator went too fast and my stomach always went down. That's the part I didn't like going to the dentist, but, and then, yeah, so my mom would get me dressed up and like I said, I, between 33rd and a few blocks from my house, there was everything you could need on Balboa Street. There was a little shop where my mother bought my, got my school clothes every year. And then later, I got older, there was another men's shop where she'd get my clothes. There was a Crown hardware, which is still there. But Hockey Haven bar’s still there, where my, my dad used to go. I've never been there. I have to go there sometimes.

Nicole: Oh really? Oh, we should get a drink there right now.

Reino: Yeah. That'd be great. Yeah. And then my mom used to go to the Sugar Bowl bakery, which is right next to the Balboa Theater. And remember my mom taking me to the Balboa Theater to see movies probably every other week or so. And we would sit back in the, before they divided into two theaters, one big theater. We'd sit back in the loge seats. [00:17:00] So, at that time she was smoking so she could smoke. Don't smoke in movie theaters anymore.

Nicole: I know having smoking and non-smoking sections in one big movie theater never made sense to me. But there were still a few theaters when I was really young that had that, which it's sort of like smoking on airplanes, right? We're all just in it.

Reino: Yeah.

Nicole: So, growing up in the Richmond was great. Let's talk about Playland a little bit.

Reino: Okay.

Nicole: What are your memories of going there as a kid? Because this was in your backyard and your dad worked there, so you must have felt like you were working in the castle.

Reino: We were there quite a bit, especially during the summertime with my friend, John Coyle. And we used to go there and we played games and we tried to win tickets. And we played the fascination. There were different games you could play. There was a machine where you dropped in coins and it landed on numbers on this big screen. And if it was a landed on a number four, you got four points if you put a penny on it. But if you put a dime on it, you got four times, so you got 40 points. So, we [00:18:00] were playing those games when we saw this little sailboat we saw was one of the prizes. So, we kept working on that for a few weeks. So, we got enough tickets to buy that little sailboat and we went to Spreckels Lake and we thought we were sailors. Of course, we weren't like the old men that are there now. They have the big boats. We have little, we had fun.

Nicole: And so, there were, for everyone who listens to this podcast is now a Playland expert, but there were the big rides, there were different rides all around. There were also concessions that were carnival type games.

Reino: Right.

Nicole: And there were places that you could eat. What was your favorite ride at Playland?

Reino: My favorite ride? Probably, I like the Dodger, they call it bumper cars now, but it was like a Dodger and I used to try to find a car and stay on the outside and not get hit by anybody and go around cause only went around in one direction. There, there was, remember there were signs there and I could see signs and pictures. I know those were painted by my dad. Says one way, so everybody's supposed to go one way.

Nicole: You’re like, my dad says one way.

Reino: Yeah. [00:19:00] When, like a racetrack, you go on counter-clockwise. So that was fun. I used to like the, the Octopus, I went on a couple times, but there's a ride called the Roll-O-Plane. It's kinda like a little. like a Ferris wheel, but it's an enclosed type cage and you get and go around and it's Ferris wheel. But we did, me and my mother went in there one time with my little brother and we didn't realize when you get in, there's a lock they put so the car doesn't rock while you're standing in getting, walking in.

Nicole: Oh.

Reino: The one time the operator forgot to unlock it, so we wound up going upside down. But then we, I figured we’d it out a little bit and then we were terrified the first couple times. Then we said, wait a minute, let's do this, this is fun. So, then we pulled it back and you pull it back in control so it would go upside down and if you let it go, it would rock back and forth. So, I remember that finally is that one. And then, of course, the Fun House. You could do all kinds of things in there. The big thing was try to stay on the disc and not slide off, which is like the big record player. And I've heard other [00:20:00] people tell stories about you wet your hands or we used to always try to get, be the first or second person to get to the center, but you weren't there. You slid off, you up and hit this soft on the side. You didn't care, was fun.

Nicole: Definitely before the days of liability insurance and OSHA.

Reino: Def, Definitely. Yeah. Cause they also, they had the Barrel of Fun where you had to walk through the rotating tube and you learn, I learned, finally learned how to do that face one way and just walked sideways. And then they had the stairways that wiggled and ramps that went up and down. All kinds of things. And then of course the big slide. That was a big climb. You always went on that a once or twice because it was a big hike to the top. And then you had to make sure you got your burlaps sack and don't let your hands touch the slide, cause you would definitely get a skin burn.

Nicole: The slides, the big slides were always my favorite at the local county fair as well cause it felt like you shouldn't be doing it. It was just like risky enough, cause I was little. And especially when you're little, when you kind of hit one of the bumps, you can catch some [00:21:00] air.

Reino: It must be airborne. Yeah.

Nicole: And you're on like burlap, which feels like not an official material to be sliding down this thing on. So, I remember loving the slides that I went on too. Now…

Reino: That's what I like.

Nicole: The pieces you have picked to bring into display at the museum, and which I encourage everybody to come see it, because there's something really magical about seeing Reino's dad's work and then looking out the window of the Cliff House and seeing where they all used to be. Which of course they're all condos now, cause Playland's not there anymore. But what are some of the pieces, one of your, what are, what are some of your favorite pieces that we have on display right now?

Reino: My favorite place would be the, the shooting gallery one, the Rifle Range sign because that somehow we kept that in the garage for many years and moved it around cause we moved away from the Balboa Street in 1973. Moved to a different house. Then I moved over here where I live now in, near the Castro. And it was in the garage. And then I was surprised somebody on [00:22:00] a Facebook group I belonged to, Remembering Playland, posted a picture of it and it's in the background where some people are doing this a group as a singing group. And I go, so that sign's been around for a while.

Nicole: Yeah, that the photos you sent me from that, they're incredible. They seem like they're from about the 1950s, early ‘50s and it's, it's, yeah, some sort of band, it looks like they're very young guys and I think it's KPIX, K-P-I-X, maybe channel 5, if I remember correctly, filming them. And we think it's in Sutro Baths. We asked, the undisputed expert on the Baths, John Martini, if he thought so too. And he said maybe the paneling on the ceiling on the walls are consistent with that. So that would make sense cause that sign’s in great condition.

Reino: Yeah. There's also, there's also one of the pictures where there Is Mr. Godfrey, who was a radio announcer, is in either a little table there and I don't know if I can remember reading the letters of the station there or something. That's from, yeah, Arthur Godfrey, yeah.

Nicole: There's definitely [00:23:00] more sleuthing to be done on that, but do you know why your family kept that sign indoors?

Reino: That one, I'm not sure. I don't know. Like I said, I don't, I don’t remember moving it from the other house to this house where I'm at now, but it's in the garage and it's neat and I was just trying to find a place to put it. But it's two pieces and it's a total length of 15 feet. So not too many houses have one wall that's 15 feet long.

Nicole: It's true. There's a chance if you want us to hold onto it for a little bit for you, there's a chance it might fit in our office. We were looking at it today and I was like, I bet we could get that thing up on the ceiling or not on the ceiling right below the ceiling, like pretty high up. But I need to take some actual measurements to prove that.

Reino: Yeah. I actually going measured a wall over at when they had Playland Not at the Beach in El Cerrito. I found out about that when they were doing the movie at the Balboa Theater about 12 years ago. Remembering Playland, which that movie's gonna be shown again in Daly City at the, near the senior center on this Sunday, which I wanna go [00:24:00] see it, cause I, yeah, had nice conversations with Tom Wyrsch, the man who. And I did get to go over to Playland Not at the Beach a couple times. So, I see, and I saw, I went there for the auction when they were off auctioning signs. So, I tried to buy a few things, but it got pretty expensive for some signs. And then there was a model of the Cliff House, which I really wanted to get. But I had, I stopped at $20,000 which was my limit on that cause I, I know that, cause my dad designed it. I've got pictures of, I just found some of them recently. The layout for painting the schematic on the front of it.

Nicole: I can't imagine. What I can actually, what it feels like to have, to try to buy back your dad's work like. I just, how could, how do you say no? Like how do you cut out, well obviously if you don't have any more money to bid, you don't have any more money to bid. That must be so hard for you to see these pieces continually slip away from you.

Reino: Well, yeah. And spread around. I'm surprised to have so many. It's like I find out I’m bidding against you guys for some of the signs at the Cliff House.

Nicole: Yeah, sorry about that.

Reino: Yeah. [00:25:00] Cause I remember the Hontalas family, they used to have the Cliff Chalet, which, the restaurant there was burned down when Sutro’s burned down in 1966.

Nicole: Yeah. Yeah, at least, with us buying it, you can come by and see it any time.

Reino: Yeah, it doesn't, yeah, I keep thinking about Portland. There was amusement park there where you had all the rides you could go on, all the different kind of foods. There was Mexican foods, the Hot House. There was, the hotdog, hamburgers, cotton candied apples. There was a place called the Pie Shop, which one of my favorites I used to go to. My dad took me to lunch. When I go to visit him at work you, I get a nice apple or beef turnover and it has lots of nice gravy on it. And then, of course, I have a piece of banana green pie afterwards.

Nicole: The Pie Shop signs are actually some of my favorite. They're not like your dad's most impressive work that we have on display, but they're so beautiful and they're so crisp, and I really like things that would've just been thrown away. You know, your dad's. inarguably an artist and a lot of his signs show like great artistry. [00:26:00] But these are super utilitarian. We also have a roasted peanut sign that your dad did.

Reino: Yeah. They're like, they used to have a, I remember Foster's restaurant when I was a little kid on Geary Street in the Richmond District. And they used to put the boards of, but the different foods they had. So that's what they did at the Pie Shop, whatever pie they had or whatever special that day. So, my dad had those signs and sometimes they had to change the price so we had to redo it or change it. So, it was neat having a few of those and it's like I just, I keep thinking more about this. It's great to have this chance and discuss this with you because Playland was not only amusement park, you did the Fun House, you did the rides, you did the food. If you got tired of that, you could just go to the beach and make sandcastles, which I did with my friend a lot. Or you could go roller skating or you could go up to the Sutro Baths, see the museum. It was free. I used to go in there a bunch of times and or, and then you could go ice skating. So, you could do all kinds of things in one location. It was great. And then even later on, in later years, they actually had a little putting, Arnold Palmer putting [00:27:00] con mini golf course there at the, that's where the area where before they built a Safeway.

Nicole: Oh, I had heard that before. And that's part of the reason, when folks come into our museum, which has an immersive quality to it, they're blown away by how much used to be out along Point Lobos Avenue and Great Highway, cause it's such a quiet spot now. It's mostly residential. All the businesses are closed. Things like, they can't wrap their minds around how much you used to be able to do here.

Reino: And your immersive sound, which I hear there when I go to the museum. I go, that's exactly what I remember hearing. You could be walking along the beach across the street and that's what you'd hear. You know, if you drive by with your window open in the car, you'd hear that, that exact sound. The rides, the music. It's like they used to have the great, the Merry-Go-Round, which is now down at, downtown.

Nicole: Yeah.

Reino: They used to have all these musical instruments in the middle, which would play the music. Now it's just a tape or a loop or something, playing the music. But that was part of what I like watching all those things and [00:28:00] all the different characters. Cause that Merry-Go-Round has all the different kind of characters. It has lions, tigers, and bears, oh my.

Nicole: Yeah. That Looff carousel was, is, is amazing. We get to say “is,” because it's still around. So…

Reino: I, we do it. We painted some of the horses in his shop. They had a couple of spares so they could take a couple off and put a couple on. So, you see them getting painted.

Nicole: Your dad had to keep that place looking fresh all the time, which is an, an almost impossible job outs out of the beach. How about the ocean? Near the ocean there?

Reino: Yeah, that's what he used to tell me. He just said they used to, sometimes they go out to paint the ride. They just had to take rags and wipe the water off the ride so they could paint the metal. Cause he was in charge of a crew of painters that did all the painting. And he just, his designing and he did all the signs.

Nicole: And your dad…

Reino: And you need signs to tell you where to go in, where to get out from places. And dad had little sign in his shop. I just wanted to mention for, he had his little sign, it was up behind his desk and it was something he lettered himself that said, the most knocking is done by people [00:29:00] that don't know how to ring the bell. You have to think about that a little bit. I'm not talking knocking on the door, but yeah, the most knocking is done by people who don’t know how to ring the bell.

Nicole: Nope. Way finding is so important in a space. What we do as exhibition designers right, is you try to figure out how do people wanna walk into the room? Like how do you help people navigate themselves? Otherwise, they're gonna be confused and the experience isn't as good. So, without your dad, people wouldn't have been able to experience Playland as intuitively and as easily. So, your dad really was such a critical part of this whole experience.

Reino: Yeah. Like that little sign you got near the entrance, maybe a lot of people don't see, which says go this way to see the entire exhibit, which…

Nicole: Yeah. And the pieces that you brought, well they were, I will be honest, they were a lot bigger than I thought they were gonna be. He dropped off these pieces and I went, oh lord, how am I gonna put these up on the wall? But we did it.

Reino: Got stuff up, yeah.

Nicole: And he brought [00:30:00] way more than I was able to fit in. But it was so wonderful, cause they all found the right homes they needed to be in. It all makes sense where it is. And like I said before, like one, my favorite is the big Surf Club sign. Just cause like I wish I could go to a concert out at the beach. And it's in this beautiful pink and like yellow and green colors or sea foam green colors. And when you look at that and you look to the right you can see exactly where the Surf Club used to be. We have a great photo on our OpenSFHistory archive that shows the Surf Club pretty much from the same vantage point. So, it's just, it's so magical to experience those pieces in this place.

Reino: Neat. Cause that building was a lot of different things. It was Topsy’s Roose, it was Barnums and my, and I showed you that and it's in one of those James Smith's books. The napkin he signed for Barnums were the animals on the corners of the napkin. And then it was the Surf Club. I remember it as the model car raceway, which was the neatest thing in the world to me. Cause that's when I, about 12 years old, [00:31:00] 13 years old. So, my dad, I, we got a car and you buy your car and you painted, my dad painted the car for me and he put number seven on it. Cause that's my birthday, was also his birthday, number seven. And I still have that car too. I don't know exactly where, you know, cause a lot of things get misplaced.

Nicole: I’m sure you’ll find it.

Reino: Yeah. And not only the artwork I've showed you, but I think I've showed you a few things. He's done some fine pencil drawings. Like I discovered this picture of an old shoe and you can see all the wrinkles and curves and war marks to the shoe. It's just great, you know.

Nicole: Yeah. Your dad took classes at City College, right?

Reino: Well, he took some classes actually at State College when he was in the late mid ‘70s, I think to late early ‘80s. Cause he found out they had a free art class for seniors. He was a senior. He used to always like to find, get all the senior discounts wherever he could get them. But then he also liked it because, you've seen some of my pictures, the way he [00:32:00] depicted some of the women, they're like the pinup women from the ‘40s and ‘50s posters. They had nude people there to draw. But he, so I have some of his artwork that he drew from that. But I think most of his best work was some of the stuff he did when he was at Playland, to me.

Nicole: And we kept the exhibition in, at the Naiad Cove exhibition pretty focused on his Playland. But your dad just deserves such a much larger exhibition, and I'm hoping that can be the next chapter for our professional relationship together.

Reino: Okay.

Nicole: It is. I mean, you know, people don't know this a lot, but when Walt Disney was designing, was conceptualizing Disneyland, he visited tons of parks across the country to get inspiration, and Playland was one of his stops. And then, of course, Walt, George Whitney Jr. went with him, helped him design Playland, or I'm sorry, Disneyland. And then Lorrie Hollings, who was an early employee, also went and helped design [00:33:00] Disneyland. So, your dad had a big impact on Walt Disney and Disneyland, which is the preeminent amusement park in probably the world, right?

Reino: I would tell you. Disneyland. Yeah. That's the one I used to go to. But I had Playland. I didn't know I needed to go to Disney, to go to Disneyland. Always wanted to go there, and I get there a couple times when I was a kid.

Nicole: Did you go with your dad?

Reino: Yeah, it was my dad one time. And one I told you, he made home movies and they're part, one of, they're part of the movies. He had Disneyland changed the different of their obvious had a, they had a lion tamer and he had a film of that. And then, but the part we always talked about, I'm, I think I'm four, yes, I'm four years old, because the movie, my mother is pregnant with my little brother, so I'm four years old there. He wasn't there yet, but I was. And I jump off of one of those cable cars or that are towed by the horses.

Nicole: Yeah.

Reino: And I run into this little girl. Over, so every time I watch that movie, oh, there's [00:34:00] Reino and his little girlfriend.

Nicole: Oh my gosh. Do you still have those family films?

Reino: I have those movies. I haven't seen them in a long time, so I'd have to maybe get them transferred or hopefully they're still not deteriorated.

Nicole: Oh man, Reino, we would love to help you with that, cause especially the ones in San Francisco, this is just an introduction to Reino. You're gonna, I hope we can keep working together. And I also hope that folks from History San Jose or the Walt Disney Family Museum are listening to this because this man needs to be given a show in a much larger museum, so.

Reino: It'd be great. I'd really, like I said, all the things I could fill out, I could fill out the, your place with all of his work. These little things are, like the drawings and stuff and some of the big ones and some of the conceptual posters and conceptual drawings. He's been, I found one recently looks like they were gonna, I didn't know where this was gonna be, but it's like calling feed the seals and it's there, there's an outside of this building and then there's an inside picture, and it looks like it's gonna be a big tank where you go up and feed the seals. And I don't know where that was gonna [00:35:00] be.

Nicole: Huh?

Reino: I'll have to figure it out sometime. Yeah.

Nicole: I wonder if that's why the Whitneys asked Lorrie Hollings to create a giant fiberglass sea lion.

Reino: Oh yeah. I remember my dad was working on that. That's also the exhibit where they had the mis, they had all the miniatures all the missions of California in there.

Nicole: I think those ended up, maybe I'm wrong, but I think those may have ended up at a winery up in Napa

Reino: Oh, could be, I know also at Sutro’s. I know there was, near the gift shop, there was a lot of miniature displays of model ships. But I mean, these weren't really, they were like eight, ten-feet long. And my dad says, yeah, he they told him one time, they're getting dusty, can you clean those up? So, he said, he said a little brush trying to, delicately, you know, one of his little paint brush, just cleaning up his, he said, the heck was this. He just got a hose and hosed them off and they said, people saw, somebody saw, I'm doing this, are you crazy? He goes, no, it worked okay. Only a couple [00:36:00] little things came off and he glued them back on. My dad was very practical, you know. But he, like I said, another thing, he worked on all kinds of things there.

Nicole: Yeah. So, it wasn't the that's a good point to make. Like it wasn't just Playland, right? He worked with for the Whitneys.

Reino: Whitney brothers. Yeah. He helped, I think he helped redesign the last front of the building that was there. The kind of, rustic with the kind of western type looking letters I would say.

Nicole: Yeah.

Reino: I know that one, the one video you have playing there at the museum, the Cliff House, there's a guy standing in front of a barker and I can see the sign says, come on in, see the exhibits, they're free. And I go, that's all my dad's artwork, all of that. In fact, he even, I think he made the cutout wooden letters.

Nicole: Oh my goodness.

Reino: Because he, he had saws and tools in his shop too, to make those. In fact, I still have some of the letters that said Mel’s car raceway, small little letters. One was an R. So, I save the R for me cause it's for Reino, but..

Nicole: I can't wait to see, you really are digging through all of your [00:37:00] family's incredible archive and I can't wait to see the next things that you bring to me. The latest round has been all of these concept drawings for the limbo ride, right?

Reino: From what I understanding, yes.

Nicole: Yeah. And they're pretty dark. Like they're it's supposed to be a scary ride. It was all in the dark and…

Reino: Right.

Nicole: But it's very PG 13, like there are sexy ladies who are maybe like taken captive and things like that. They're actual, they're just truly exceptional pieces of art.

Reino: Yeah. Kind of like the pinup girls, with certain areas are strategically covered up. But, I thought some of, I remember in the rides, I don’t know if it was, I think it was a limbo or another ride, it was there called the Dark Mystery. There was a, an octopus that would blow up and my dad said it was made out of a parachute and it was like an air gun would go up to fill it up and a big siren went off. I remember I went on that ride, the Dark Mystery ride a lot of times with my mother when I was a kid. I love to go there, but I covered my eyes and peeked through my fingers all the time.

Nicole: So [00:38:00] we, your pieces, your dad's pieces are on display for as long as we have the museum open, which right now is to the end of the month, this September. So, if you wanna see his dad's pieces, you need to get down to the Cliff House, the former Cliff House restaurant. Totally free, Saturdays and Sundays, 11 to 5:00 PM. Or we're doing a curator's tour on Friday, but we'll get into that in the events in a minute. So Reino, I have to say thank you for being with us tonight. Or today, or in the afternoon depending on what time you listen to this podcast.

Reino: I really appreciate this opportunity because I got share my dad's work, which basically. I, you know, like you said, he was part of Playland, part of San Francisco history. You know, like I said, my dad was a native San Franciscan, and I'm a native of San Franciscan. You don't find too many native San Franciscans. And one last story I wanna tell you about my dad. He, we grew up over here, we're near Twin Peaks. He told me when he is a kid, they used a roller skate down from the top of Twin Peaks. And these [00:39:00] are the kind of metal skates that you clamped onto your shoes. Cause I had a pair of those. And when you come down the hill, I believe it's Corbett Street, the streetcar used to back, do a back switchback to go down Market Street. So, that's where he had to hop over the streetcar tracks. Of course, this is probably in, in the mid-1920s, cause he was born in 1915.

Nicole: Right.

Reino: There weren't that many cars around, so…

Nicole: Not recommended for people to do today.

Reino: No. I wouldn't being doing that today, but I've seen people go there down the hills. But they got the modern skate for the soft wheels and everything.

Nicole: So clearly it closed in 1972. What did your dad do afterwards? It sounds like you sold a family home in the Richmond district and regrouped.

Reino: Well, we moved away in 1973. Actually, the way he moved, cause we were next to the gas station and it was the way the house was built, it was elevated above the gas station. They dug out for the gas station at the corner. The house was built on sand dune. He had this thing that the house was gonna fall over if there was an earthquake.

Nicole: Oh my gosh.

Reino: But that never happened. So, but there's a big apartment building next to it now. He wanted to move over to, [00:40:00] we moved over to Miraloma Park. They were building a new school. Well, god, I can't think of the name of what it was. It was for a guy that he went to school with. It's called, it's a School of the Arts now, Ruth Asawa. But it, but we went over there cause he went in, my brother and my sister went to that, that high school, so, so the high school used to be a golf driving arrangement. I went there when I was a kid.

Nicole: Nice.

Reino: But yeah, so that was part, that's why I remember watching them build the tower, the television tower up on Twin Peaks. And I thought it was neat when they first built it, looked neat cause it was all gold color.

Nicole: Oh.

Reino: So that was the color when they had it painted red and white for the FAA so airplanes could see it.

Nicole: Interesting. And what did your dad do in retirement? Or did he like formally retire and then just take art classes or did he…

Reino: He did retire. He did have a few other little jobs where he got some assignments through the union. He wound up setting, one time he said he was pitching hay bells, setting up this display somewhere for a company that was doing a big party or something. And then he [00:41:00] used to do some side contracting. I remember he used to paint some signs in the garage for people he knew. There was a furniture store on Balboa Street called Lambert's Furniture. And he painted these big metal signs that they were gonna mount on the side of the trucks one time. So, he did a few other side jobs, but he basically retired after Playland closed. He'd worked there since, I guess like at least since 1938, ‘39. So, ‘69 when, ‘68 when the Whitney Brothers sold it and then he wound up going back after a few months and was there until the day it closed, basically.

Nicole: And what happened to his shop?

Reino: Well, there's a picture in one of those books that James Smith wrote, that they were auctioning off stuff. So, I guess they auctioned off some of the equipment in there. Yeah, he got a few things from there. We, I still have the painting scaffold from there. And also, at the block where Safeway is at, there actually used to be some houses there behind the rides. So, they were tearing those apart. So, we went and torn, tore our kitchen sink from there. And that's in my grandfather's house right now.

Nicole: Oh, that's [00:42:00] awesome.

Reino: So, I have Playland at my house basically. Yeah.

Nicole: I mean…

Reino: Then we did a little house remodeling. We bought a couple houses, some investing. So, we're working on some houses after that time. That's my dad, he learned how to, cause he learned to a carpenter. First job was a carpenter and then, cause my grandfather and my uncle, his brother were carpenters. But then he learned how to do a little bit of plumbing, a little bit of electric. He could do all the handyman stuff. So that's where I learned all my skills, which comes in handy. You wanna hire somebody, you could see how expensive it's nowadays. So, I'm glad I learned all that stuff.

Nicole: It's true. And what do you, are you a painter too Reino? Is, are you a carpenter?

Reino: I, I painted several houses or the buildings that my family owned. Yeah, several times. I have, we have a two-unit apartment building that my grandfather built in 1937. And I worked here after tenants had moved out, helping my grandfather first. Then my dad when he got the building, now I own the building. And I probably painted every room in his house at least four or five times, maybe six, [00:43:00] seven times in some rooms. Yeah.

Nicole: Are there any tricks your dad taught you?

Reino: Well, he just, no, he just told me if, if there's a spot you miss and you go back and look and you see the little spot where you didn't get the paint all the way. He’d say that those are holidays. You have to go back and cover up your holidays. Yeah.

Nicole: I'm gonna think about that every time I paint a room now, Reino.

Reino: You know. But I've done it so many times with a roller and I learned how, I learned how to get a big stick and then you can kinda stand in the middle of room and you don't have to walk around the whole room. And I can reach it and I can reach the ceiling without getting on ladders. I learned that trick. So that works for me.

Nicole: You are very tall.

Reino: Well, as was my dad, we're both like 6;4”. Yeah.

Nicole: That comes in handy when you're painting.

Reino: Now, my son, but he hasn't been around with me that much to me to pass on all my handyman traits that I learned from my dad, unfortunately. I said, I get a good job. You're gonna hire people to do things.

Nicole: Very true. We're, we’re, that wraps up the, I think that's a good place to wrap [00:44:00] up the formal part of our podcast, unless there's anything else you wanna add Reino, before we move on to the next section.

Reino: No, just if you, if people get a chance, come and see the Playland and hear about the stories. See the actual signs that are, that were, that my father made. It was a neat place. It was one of those places that I miss a lot. A lot of people miss it that went there. Unfortunately, people like yourself never got a chance to experience it.

Nicole: I know.

Reino: The closest thing you get around here is maybe Santa Cruz boardwalk, where they've got rise and games and things to play.

Nicole: I can't tell you it's the greatest regret of my life that I wasn't born earlier than I was. But okay, so that's the formal part of the podcast. Now we move into a section called Say What Now, where I ask you several incredibly hard-hitting questions, Reino. So, we're gonna do this quickly. Just respond naturally. The first thing that comes to mind, are you ready?

Reino: Go. Okay.

Nicole: All right. Number one, if you could bring [00:45:00] anything back from Playland and all the concessions that were along Great Highway, what would it be?

Reino: Ooh, I think I'd like to bring back one of those chicken or beef turnovers. And the apple pie or the banana cream pie.

Nicole: Alright, we gotta bring back the Pie Shop. I hope anybody who is taking over the concession at the Cliff House is listening to this. Bring back the Pie Shop vibe. So, keeping the restaurant theme going here, what's your favorite restaurant on the west side?

Reino: On the west side? Oh, a lot of them I used to go to are gone.

Nicole: Oh.

Reino: I mean, I haven't been to the Tennessee Grill. My dad used to take me a lot of times when I was little. And I didn't, no, that's actually a place I go to a lot now. It's not really on the west side. It's in Daly City there. It's the Boulevard Cafe.

Nicole: Oh, that place is great.

Reino: Yeah.

Nicole: That's close enough. So, when you have, okay, this is our third [00:46:00] question. When you have guests in from out of town, where do you take them? Like, what's the one place in San Francisco they have to see?

Reino: Oh, I used to take them for a ride up to the top of Twin Peaks, so you can see the whole city from there. Although they kind of made it, they closed off the east side, so you can't really drive on that side. You have to drive up and park up there.

Nicole: Oh, okay.

Reino: That's where drive by. Take them out to show 'em. This is where the amusement park used to be. Might show you a picture or something. Kind of describe it. That really doesn't do it justice. Yeah.

Nicole: It’s true. We've tried to develop like walking tours along Great Highway, but it, you really need things that have survived that kind of give you an idea of what it used to be and that everything's totally gone on Great Highway.

Reino: Yeah, I just, I, what I miss is, I miss seeing the sea and the stairs at the esplanade.

Nicole: Yeah.

Reino: They go down to the beach, but they're all in the sand. That was a thing going down over the stairs and the steps.

Nicole: People, when they see photos of that on our OpenSFHistory archive, are always like, where [00:47:00] is this? We're like right at Ocean Beach, and they call us liars. But okay, number four, what is the best San Francisco neighborhood?

Reino: Ooh. I grew up in the Richmond District. I say that was the best neighborhood for me. Like I said…

Nicole: Good answer.

Reino: From 32nd and Balboa to the beach, cause you had that to the beach, you could go, I was two blocks away from Golden Gate Park where Spreckels Lake was at. And me and my friend, we used to drive our, ride, our bicycles all over the Park and we didn't go to the zoo a lot and we used to go to all the things in the Park like they were free. The aquarium, the museum, Japanese tea gardens. When I finally learned how to climb over that high bridge that goes over the one area there. You know, and my street, like I said, it was my own little neighborhood. It had, you didn't need to go anywhere else to get anything you needed in the world, I don't think.

Nicole: Ah, good answer, Reino. Okay, last one. This one is kinda a hard one actually. Why do [00:48:00] you think history is important?

Reino: Well, I heard somebody say, if you don’t remember the past, you're, you might repeat, you’re damned to repeat it. But it's learning, you learn from history. What goes, what happened in the past, so you can build on it for your future. That's what I think. My, my father grew up, you know, born in 1915, grew up through the Depression. So, he had a real appreciation for, for money. I used to, not cheap, but he wasn't, he watched the pennies, you know, cause that's what he had to learn how to do. And then he, I'm just proud, he was born in San Francisco, got this amazing job working at Playland for most of his life and got all, all the people that got to see has wonderful work. Not always, didn't pay any attention to it, but they certainly enjoyed it whether they knew it or not.

Nicole: That's a great answer too. You're good at this section. Alright Reino, you can stick around. I'm gonna read a bunch of listener mail and a bunch of stuff. You can stick around, but you can also take off if you want to. Your call.

Reino: Okay, I [00:49:00] might stay around for a little bit then, okay.

Nicole: Great. Okay, so now we've got listener mail. So, if you have heard something in this podcast that you're like, oh man, that triggered some amazing memories, then you should tell us about it so we can share it with other people too. You can email us at podcast@outsidelamps.org. Or, you know, if you're on Instagram or Twitter or Facebook, you can send us messages on any of those platforms. Either feelings you had while listening to this podcast or ideas for other podcasts. We are all ears, so definitely reach out and connect with us.

We had Paul, who operated the limbo ride at Playland in its final days. He had a question about a photo of the Splendid Inn on Great Highway that we talked about in our Playland Memories podcast. He said, and I quote, “could Uncle George in the photo possibly be George Mavros, who was granted the rights to make and sell [00:50:00] It’s-It ice cream novelties after the demolition of the amusement park? I used to buy It’s-It at Splendid Inn, I think it was from an owner slash manager type guy named George. And the attraction to his It’s-It was that he dipped them in real dark chocolate, like semisweet versus the milkier chocolate coating. I don't believe the myriad of research,” or he said, “don't believe the myriad research sources that say It’s-Its were dipped in dark chocolate, it was a milk chocolate. And could the Batanides family help in sleuthing this question?” End quote. Reino, do you remember ever buying It’s-It ice cream at the Splendid Inn?

Reino: I do remember it from the Splendid Inn. I remember getting it from there.

Nicole: Yep.

Reino: And I remember they were kinda hard. I don't know if I really liked it that much, but…

Nicole: It's one of the greatest controversial questions in west side history is do you like the It’s-It ice cream sandwich or not?

Reino: I have, I have to, I know they have 'em now [00:51:00] and they have a bunch of different flavors. And I have a neighbor that went down there to Burlingame, or I think where it's at.

Nicole: Yeah.

Reino: And bought a couple of, all the different flavors. There's a cappuccino, there's a mint. The regular vanilla and a chocolate.

Nicole: Yeah. It’s so…

Reino: I’ve gotten them all.

Nicole: It's so fancy now and we've been trying to get someone at the It’s-It company to engage with us for years. No one seems to be able to crack this It’s-It nut. So, if you or someone you know works for It’s-It, please email us. We've been trying to do something fun with them for a really long time. It would be so great. So, that's all for listener mail. You know how to count, you know how to reach us now cause we tell you every podcast and I've told you again.

Now I'm going to get into the benefits of membership and donating. So, if you clickety, clickety clack the big orange button at the top of any page on either of our websites, that's outside lands.org or OpenSFHistory.org, [00:52:00] you can become a member, you can give us money and join the family, and then you'll get a quarterly membership magazine. You get discounts on events and other exclusive perks. Plus, you know, we do a lot of history work and we try to keep it free. So, your membership really helps us do that. No joke. Our memberships basically covers my salary now, which is incredibly, it's huge. It's the most members we've ever had. So, you wanna be part of this winning team. We do the OpenSFHistory archive, which is a treasure trove of historical photos. All free. Of course, the Cliff House collection, it's care and exhibition is astoundingly expensive. And then this podcast, right? So please join today and help us continue to keep west side history fresh and free for all the folks who can't afford to contribute financially to our organization.

And then, now [00:53:00] it's time for announcements. So maybe you heard, we've sort of been leaking this information here and there, but the GGNRA has extended The Museum at The Cliff through October. And we would love to keep the History Gallery and our special exhibition Naiad Cope going. But here's the thing, podcast listeners, we do not have enough volunteers to keep our doors open on the weekends. It takes 12 people a day. That's six people pulling three-hour shifts in the morning and afternoon to ensure the safety of our displays, because yes, people have been stealing things from the museum. So, if you want us to keep this party going, and we definitely wanna keep this party going, but we're just maybe not able to through October, then you need to email me. That's Nicole, n-i-c-o-l-e, @outside lands.org, or, of course, podcast@outsidelands.org. We wanna keep Reino’s family history [00:54:00] on display for as long as we can.

So, if you can't help us out to keep these doors open, then our last official open day will be Sunday, September 25th. So, you should get down to the museum right now. This weekend we’ll be open. Next weekend we’ll be open, but that'll be it. So, I hope we see you soon at the museum. It's totally free. You can register in advance or you can also just walk up. And we're hosting a final Curator's tour. This one's a combo. You get John Lindsey of the Great Highway Gallery and myself talking about art and history in our Naiad Cove exhibition. That's Friday, September 23rd at 6:00 PM. This tour is $10 for Western Neighborhoods Project members, and $20 for non-members. And you know what, if you're giving us $20 for this event, you may as well just become a member at the low price of $50 a year. So, you can [00:55:00] find us on Eventbrite. You can also just find our events page on the website.

And we have one more event to tell you about. This one is tomorrow, Sunday, September 18th at 1:00 PM. The Daly City History Guild Museum and Archive is presenting a lecture at the Pacelli Gym in Westlake Park at 145 Lake Merced Boulevard. That's featuring Jim Smith and a documentary, Remembering Playland at the Beach, by Tom Wyrsch. It's completely amazing. This is totally free with refreshments and a raffle. So, visit the Daly City History Guild Museum and archive on Facebook for more details. And we do have a preview of next week, although it's kind of a soft preview. But before I, I let you know what we're bringing at you next week, of course, broadcasting live from KPSF as well, from the Sutro Tower. I wanna give a big thank you to Reino. Reino, thank [00:56:00] you again for joining us. This has been wonderful to have you in general, but on the podcast as well.

Reino: Great. It's been a great experience. Glad to share it. And I'm gonna go there for the thing on this 18th, and I'm gonna bring some of the other signs I have there. So, you get to see that. But, plus the presentation. Good. Good film. Remembering Playland captures a lot of good stuff.

Nicole: Yeah, really. You're amazing. Have signs, will travel. Like, you’re good at bringing your dad's work to the people, so go see Reino on the 18th and next week I think we'll continue the story of Great Highway, which is now like a hop on, hop off tour history bus of a podcast series. But, but tune in then. Thanks for listening, friends, and remember that WNP loves you. Have a good night.

Ian: Outside Lands San Francisco is recorded by Ian Hadley. Content creation and media production at ihadley.com.

Nicole: To learn more about the Western Neighborhoods Project and more on San Francisco history, go to Outsidelands.org. You can also find us on social media at Facebook, which is outsidelands with an S, at Twitter, which is outsidelandz with a Z, and on Instagram, which is outsidelandz, also with a Z. And check out our historic San Francisco images website at OpenSFHistory.org.