WNP265 – Sutro Women
Woody: [00:00:00] It's Outside Lands San Francisco, the podcast of the Western Neighborhoods Project. I'm Woody LaBounty.
David: And I'm David Gallagher.
Woody: We have a special guest today!
David: We do. Our board member and longtime contributor Nicole Meldahl is here today.
Woody: Yay! Nicole Meldahl!
David: Say hi, Nicole.
Nicole: Hi Nicole.
Woody: Oh great. She's totally on board with the program. We got our George Allen or whatever, Gracie Allen stuff going. Okay. So, Nicole, you know, when we did our OpenSFHistory show on Adolph Sutro and stuff that he touched in San Francisco in August…
David: We did that at the Sutro Library at San Francisco State, right?
David: Beautiful building.
Woody: Yes. I would say that the highlight of that afternoon was Nicole's presentation.
Woody: So, I thought we'd have her kind of recreate it with us and talk a little bit about an element of, or members of [00:01:00] Adolph Sutro's family.
David: We hear a lot about Adolph Sutro and the things that he built and the impact that he personally made. But we don't hear a whole lot about the people in his life.
Woody: Yeah. And, but quickly, before we get to Nicole and all the stuff she's gonna tell us, who is Adolph Sutro, David? Quickly!
David: Adolph Sutro was a, was a philanthropist, and he was a multimillionaire who built the Sutro Baths, built the giant Victorian Cliff House, had his house at Sutro Heights, at one time owned a purported 12% of San Francisco Peninsula.
Woody: He was a mayor.
David: He was the mayor also.
Woody: So, he had an outsized influence on San Francisco in the 1880s, 1890s.
Woody: Right. Okay. So, we kind of know about him. Nicole, why were you curious about finding out more about his family?
Nicole: Well, we do hear so much about Adolph Sutro and I worked at the Golden Gate National Recreation Area, or still work, I've worked there for about 12 years. And he's all over [00:02:00] the GGNRA too, because they own Ocean Beach, or they manage Ocean Beach and Sutro Heights now. And then, I became friends with John Martini, who has also written numerous books about Sutro and the technology of the Baths out there. And I was like, why doesn't anybody talk about his wife? They talk about his daughter a lot, Emma, who we'll talk about a little in a second. But nothing about his wife. So, I just started digging, and, oh boy, did I find some salacious bits quickly. I mean, newspapers have all been digitized. They're online and it's really easy to find these epic storylines. And what I found out was that he married a woman named Leah, and she was British, and they had six kids together.
Woody: Wow. Wait, hold on.
Nicole: Oh, sorry. I'm launching in, I'm launching in.
Woody: No, you just surprised me though. So, you're right. We hear about Adolph Sutro all the time.
Woody: Especially since he'd lived up there at Sutro Heights, above the Cliff House and that people would go up there as like a tourist thing to look at his grounds.
Woody: And so, we know he's up there, and you're right, we hear sometimes about his daughter Emma. But he had six kids.
Nicole: He had six kids. Yeah. Four [00:03:00] girls and two boys.
David: So when, when was he married?
Woody: Yeah. What era are we talking about? 1870s something?
Nicole: No, no. ’55.
Woody: Pretty early. Pretty early. Okay.
Nicole: Really early.
Woody: Okay. All right. So, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I was just like, again, this is why we're doing this podcast, is like, you don't know. He's got six kids. It like a lot.
David: I only see him with his horse.
Woody: Yeah, I know. There's lots of photos of him on his horse. And you rarely even see pictures of Emma actually, too. So, okay. So, he gets married in the 1850s to Leah. They have six kids together. What happens?
Woody: You live happily ever after.
Nicole: In their own way, I think. But yeah. So, in 1879, they went on this little, well, let me back that up. Leah got a little suspicious that Adolph potentially had some other female companions. And she hired like a sleuth detective to follow him around D.C., and it confirmed for her that he was having relations with a woman back there, which is nothing that ever happens in D.C., right?
Woody: Okay. So, Washington D.C. Because he's back there lobbying to try to get the rights to build [00:04:00] the Sutro Tunnel.
Woody: In Nevada where the Comstock silver load is, and that's the way he basically makes all his money is building this tunnel. But he had to get Congress and people back in Washington, D.C. to sign off on him even being able to do this. So, he's spending a lot of time away from home in Washington, D.C., right?
Nicole: Yeah. When he's out there, he meets a woman named Mrs. George Allen, who's also called Hattie Trundle. And...
Woody: Wait, she's Mrs.?
Woody: So, is she married or is she widowed? Do we know?
Nicole: Both, numerous times.
Nicole: She has quite the reputation back East for kind of moving through men.
Woody: And she has a whole different name. Hattie Trundle?
David: Was she a home wrecker?
Woody: Sounds like it.
Nicole: Yeah, it does sound like it. Well, anyways, she kind of sits on this information, right? She knows he's fooling around on her, but politely, because society was what it was at the time, just sits on it. And then they go to Virginia City to see a production called "The Pinafore", and she finds out that Hattie is there. And this is in 1879, July of 1879. And... [00:05:00]
Woody: So, Mrs., or Hattie Trundle, the home wrecker from D.C., with multiple names, and Adolph Sutro and his wife Leah are all in Virginia City at the same time in 1879?
Nicole: Yes. And that does not end well.
Nicole: Leah finds him in her, in Hattie Trundle's room, and newspaper accounts depict a crazy scene where Leah ends up breaking a champagne bottle over Hattie's head and then takes Adolph back to their shared room and starts reading him the riot act.
Woody: Wow. Was he, what is that inflagado? What is that term that they always use? And there's a champagne bottle.
David: In flagrante delicto!
Woody: There you go. And this is all the newspapers at the time or kinda later?
Nicole: No. This is at the time. Like…
Woody: Oh my gosh.
Nicole: This is like, think of how we watch the Kardashians now, right? Like this is their, this is that for 1879 Society.
Woody: Twitter was ablaze.
Woody: Everybody was like, Ooh, did you hear? Mm. Okay, go on.
Nicole: Yeah. So, they don't divorce though, because if they had divorced, then Leah would've lost her standing in society and it would've been really difficult on her. But [00:06:00] like, that fall, you know, Sutro was an influential man, and they were, he was hosting Ulysses S. Grant and his family. But because of what happened, I'm guessing things were a little tense in the Sutro home, Leah hosted them. Adolph was nowhere to be seen.
David: And this is a house like in the Western Edition or something?
Nicole: Yeah, he's not up at Sutro Heights yet.
Woody: Okay, so that's like 1879 or something.
Nicole: Yeah, that's, so they, this whole crazy thing happened in July and then it was that fall, it was like October/November.
Woody: Wow. So, Mrs. Sutro hosts the president.
Woody: But Adolph is like not allowed in the house or something, we're guessing. Okay, go on. This is good. This is good.
Nicole: And then so she goes a little Eat, Pray, Love and like tours through Europe. And Adolph gives her various properties that he has around town. He's a huge property owner, as David said.
Nicole: And she lives off of like an income that comes from those properties.
Woody: So, they're kind of separated at this point?
Nicole: Separate. Yeah. By all accounts, they never interacted after that.
David: And so, how long after that did he buy Sutro Heights? And that's where we [00:07:00] know him living out the rest of his life. Right? So that's 1879. He's estranged from his wife he kicked out, and when did he get there?
Woody: It was right after, which makes me think that maybe there's something to this having to do with him buying Sutro Heights.
Nicole: Yeah, so he was on a carriage ride with his favorite daughter, Emma, and they were kind of going along Ocean Beach, and he looked up towards Sutro Heights and went, "Huh, I've lived here since 1850, and I've never actually been up there. Let's go up there." And he went up there and he loved it, probably because it was so secluded. And I'm guessing this is his attempt to get away from the drama of society. He bought it 24 hours later.
Woody: Yeah. This is Samuel Tetlow's cottage up there.
David: Yeah, that's an interesting detail of the story, where it was just like the wife kicked him out, and then it's like the odd couple, right? And then he goes out and gets a new house out on the beach where you can just stare out at the ocean.
Woody: Well, you know, I don't think that's been part of the official narrative, but it brings an interesting [00:08:00] perspective that maybe we haven't considered. I mean, we don't know if it's true. We don't know what he did in between or whatever, and maybe he just did fall in love with the spot. But it's interesting to think that his search and purchasing of Sutro Heights may have been partially because he was just unmoored, you know, but not being able to kind of hang out in the family home anymore, being separated. Okay. That's cool. I like that. So, tell me, you said he was there with Emma, his favorite daughter. So, tell me about her and what was their relationship. Is he, why he's out in the carriage ride with her, he buys his place in in Sutro Heights, you know, why did we hear so much about Emma?
Nicole: Well, Emma was a total badass. Oh, can I say that?
Woody: Yes, you can.
David: In 1880s parlance.
Nicole: Okay. Well, he was hanging out at Sutro Heights and creating kind of a recreation empire for the public.
Nicole: In San Francisco. She went to Vassar. She was one of the first doctors to graduate from U.C. Berkeley.
Woody: I think she was a pediatrician, is that right?
Nicole: Yeah. She ended up working for Children's Hospital.
Nicole: For like 20 years. But what's interesting is I found a note that Adolph didn't want her to go to med school. I don't know why. It doesn't get into that, but for a [00:09:00] man who clearly loved his daughter so much and relied on her, the fact that he was like, "Go to Vassar, but not U.C.!" is interesting. But anyways. Yeah. And while she was at grad school, she met a man named...
Woody: George Merritt?
Nicole: George Washington Merritt.
Woody: Oh, George Washington Merritt.
Nicole: And then she did a totally 21st century thing and married a guy she met in grad school over in London in 1883.
David: That's the 21st century.
Woody: After she puts him through grad school, then they get divorced, right? Is that how it works?
Nicole: But yeah. For the rest of her life, she was known as Mrs. Dr. Emma Merritt.
Nicole: Which I think is funny that they didn't even really know how to deal with a woman doctor. They still had to put the Mrs. in front, but you never hear about her husband.
Nicole: It's always about Emma. Emma was the one that was always in the papers. But they bought a home down, kind of near Union Square. And they practice out of it. I don't know what his practice was, but she practiced as a pediatrician.
Woody: So, it's interesting. Yeah, you're right. It's like you don't, you hardly ever hear about women doctors at the time. So, she's a real trailblazer at that time. But I know she said, I know you have a quote here that you had said before is that it was very unusual [00:10:00] for that time, not as we say, but she says, "All a girl had to learn was to read and write and get herself a husband," is sort of the world she grew up in and she did not settle for that. I guess she did read and write and get a husband, but she did more than that. Okay. So, they're, where are they living? You said, so, they're not at Sutro Heights at this time. They're that downtown somewhere.
Nicole: Yeah, they're down at, I think, Mason and, Sutter and Mason, corner of Sutter and Mason. But like, the city's really growing at this time, and they're kind of tired of the congestion. So, they move, but they love their house, so they physically move the house all the way to Lafayette Square.
Woody: Wow. They moved west then, and they just kind of like…
David: Wow. I mean, they moved west, but they moved their house west.
Woody: You know, that stuff happened all the time back then. It was funny.
David: There were no electric wires.
Woody: I guess that's part of it. But they're, so they're at Sutter and Mason, which is, yeah, it's gonna be downtown and Union Square and it's all gonna get more congested. So, they just moved up the hill to Lafayette Square. That's interesting. And that, is the house still there?
Nicole: Yeah. In fact, we have a picture of it on our OpenSFHistory [00:11:00] site.
Woody: Oh, where, at Sutter and Mason or at Lafayette Square?
Nicole: Lafayette Square.
David: Well, I'll have to look…
Woody: I know.
David: For the Sutter and Mason one at the library to find that house.
Woody: So, they did that. Okay. So, Adolph Sutro is living at Sutro Heights and traveling around and buying things in Europe and whatever. His wife is living on Clay Street or some place? Someplace in the Western Edition. We don't...
Nicole: I don't remember. I don't know where she…
Woody: Yeah, she's living somewhere else. Emma and George are living in a house that moves, and there's a bunch of other children that are living in other places in the city. Okay. So, Adolph Sutro is at Sutro Heights, and then Emma moves in there at some point, doesn't she?
Nicole: She does. She moves in in around 1915, I believe. But she's back and forth a lot. She spends a lot of time with her father. Her father and her mother actually were not in good health at the end of their lives. They think Leah had diabetes. I've also heard that Adolph probably had that too, because he slipped into some major dementia in his last years.
Woody: Yeah. Senility they talked about. Yeah.
Nicole: And in that dementia, I mean, all the photos we see of him are up at Sutro Heights either with his horse or ...
Woody: In his library.
Nicole: Yeah. Like [00:12:00] alone. Like, just totally alone. And that made me think, oh, he is just a sad man in his later years. But it turns out he wasn't. He continued to find women to be his companions, and he actually took up with a seamstress that his daughter had sent out to Sutro Heights to mend something or whatever.
David: His heart.
Woody: Yeah. She mended his broken heart. Yeah.
Nicole: And they, they had a relationship for pretty much the last, I don't know, decade of his life.
Nicole: He adored her. Her name was Mrs. Kluge.
Woody: How did you find out about that? I would think that would all be hidden in the, you know, as sort of a family scandal. What is the evidence about this Kluge woman?
Nicole: Two children that had the prominent Sutro nose, named Adolph and Adolphine.
Woody: No way!
Nicole: Yeah. And he…
Woody: She had two kids, Adolph and Adolphine?
Nicole: He built her a home out on, I think Clay Street. And he had always promised her, don't worry, I'm gonna put you in my will and you will have this home, and the will hadn't been updated. So, [00:13:00] when he did end up passing away, Emma was there. Emma saw him through the last, you know, moments of his life. And afterwards, so where I found this information was that every time a prominent person in San Francisco died around this time period in, I think 1898, the will was put on the front page of the newspapers. And it all…
Woody: Everybody's business.
Nicole: Yeah, totally. And for the most part, his will is pretty standard. It was like this amount of money to brothers and sisters and whomever. But he left 50 grand to our favorite home wrecker, Mrs. Hattie Trundle.
Woody: From back in Virginia City? That one?
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. I'm gonna, I'm gonna look it up and I'm gonna read this because it was like one last dig to Leah, who predeceased him, but...
Woody: Yeah, she died in like 1893 or something, his wife.
Nicole: Yeah. But he goes, "Unto Miss Hattie Trundle of Washington, D.C., heretofore known as Mrs. George Allen, a sum of $50,000 as a reparation, as far as it may be possible, for the injury done her by a scandalous charge falsely and [00:14:00] maliciously rendered at Virginia City, state of Nevada in the month of July 1879."
Woody: Oh my gosh. It's like gotten a little specific there, huh?
David: Thank and, and you know, and researchers for years following said thank you, Adolph Sutro.
Woody: He made that pretty clear.
David: They just go back to that.
Woody: You know, it's also like, do you, do you disprove this false claim by putting this in your will, or do you just make it more obvious that it was true? You know, $50,000 is kind of a lot to, if it wasn't true.
David: Like 1898 or something.
Woody: Yeah. That's ridiculous. So, did she get it? Do we know?
Nicole: I don’t know.
Woody: Because the will was like in probate forever. It probably didn't, she probably didn't even get it in the end because it was contested.
Nicole: Oh, oh yes. Very contested.
Woody: Yeah. Emma was the executrix of the will, right? And so, she had to deal with all his papers, library, estates, and everything, right?
Nicole: Yeah. Poor Emma. I mean, Adolph died property rich and cash poor, and so he looked right on, he looked like he had a lot of money, but he didn't have a lot of liquid assets. So, she had to kind of sort through all this stuff and did a really great job, in my [00:15:00] humble opinion. But part of it was all these lawsuits that were brought against the estate, one by Mrs. Kluge demanding property and whatever, and, you know, money for her heirs.
Woody: Yeah. Adolphine and Adolph.
Nicole: But also, like he left, so he placed Emma in charge of everything, but he also left her all of his papers, all of his books, his library, like, that stuff was really important to him. He traveled all over the world collecting these things, and it was the seed of the Sutro Library that's now down at S.F. State. And she diligently found a place for all of these things. And, but she was sued by Mrs. Kluge. She was sued by her own sister.
Nicole: Her grown sister sued her because she thought she was putting land up for sale to pay off all the debts against his estate.
Nicole: At too cheap of a price. I mean, and this was very common, and I'm really into this like scandalous family history here in San Francisco. And what's funny is around like the turn 20th century, as all these cases ended up in the same courtroom, under the same judge named Mr., Judge Coffee. And I'm thinking this guy must have gone to work every day and thought, "Oh my gosh, what [00:16:00] is it gonna be today?"
Woody: I gotta write a book. And that's what he should have done, Judge Coffee.
Nicole: Yeah, I'm super into this other crazy history about the Baird family.
Woody: Yeah, in the Haight, right?
Nicole: In the Haight district. He oversaw the same case that went on for like 30 years or something.
Woody: Well, that's amazing. You know, I think Nicole, it just occurs to me that I have a project for you.
Woody: I think you should write, if not a book, a very long article about Emma Merritt. I feel like she is a, has a big role in a lot of things that happen, especially on the west side of the city, but in San Francisco, and she kind of gets overlooked, you know? So, I think it'd be a good subject for a biography.
Woody: And I can't think of anyone who could write it. Except for you.
Nicole: I'm game.
Woody: Okay, good. And thank you for coming. I hope we can have you back on the podcast. Maybe you could be a regular guest.
Woody: Whatever that means.
Nicole: That sounds great.
Woody: Yeah. We'll get you up to John Martini level.
Nicole: Aah! My hero!
Woody: But David, now it's time for listener mail. David, how do people send in listener mail?
David: You can send [00:17:00] in...
Woody: Briefly. Tell them, tell them.
David: Okay. You can use the email address firstname.lastname@example.org. That's the only way to contact us.
Woody: Oh man. You know, there's more than that.
David: You can go on the website, if you're listening to this on the website, this has a page. There's a button that says, contact us about this podcast. You can go to outsidelands.org. You can use the regular contact button.
Woody: Okay. There's many ways.
David: Do anything. You can sky write.
Woody: We look up every day.
David: I look up in the sky every day hoping for inspiration.
Woody: Well, we got a letter. We got a letter, and this is one of my favorite letters we've ever gotten on the podcast.
David: I don't think you should use her whole name though.
Woody: I won't. But I just like it because we get so many email or so many letters that say, "You guys are great! Good job!" which I appreciate.
Woody: Or, "I like that podcast." But Nancy loves our podcast. She listens all the time. She's been re-listening, so she loves us. She's not criticizing us, but she had a problem with one podcast we did.
David: Only one?
David: Out of, come on, there's [00:18:00] 260. This is a 264th episode.
David: Only one. And she didn’t, it's not the first Kezar Stadium one.
Woody: Which is what she should have a problem...
David: She should have a problem with that one.
Woody: No, she didn't like our podcast about Polly Ann Ice Cream.
David: That makes two of us.
Woody: Oh, come on. I would think that would be the most innocuous podcast. Oh, an ice cream store.
David: I'm trying to get on the right side of history here, Woody.
Woody: Everybody loves ice cream. But she brings some very important points. She uses a lot of capital letters in her email too, which is, "The number one way," she writes, "most of us pick our ice cream flavor is by SIGHT. To decide what LOOKS good. At Polly Ann, there is no VISUAL for the ice cream flavors because they're all kept inside METAL FREEZERS. WHAT? Then to make matters worse, the flavors are named things like 'Star Wars' with absolutely NO description of what flavors of ice cream and add-ins make up the flavor."
Woody: So, she's very upset about Polly Ann and she felt like we were just making a big [00:19:00] commercial for it.
David: That sounds very valid criticism of both us and Polly Ann Ice Cream.
Woody: She says, and just to be fair, she goes to Shaw's Ice Cream...
Woody: On West Portal, even though her kids go to school, I think at Giannini, two blocks away.
Woody: From Polly Ann's.
David: I used to go to Shaw's in Millbrae.
Woody: Yeah, Shaw's is good too. We're not saying Polly Ann is better than everybody else. But I think what we liked about Polly Ann is it had a thread of history: keeping the wheel, keeping the sort of idiosyncratic business, you know, marketing.
David: I think that there's room for improvement at Polly Ann Ice Cream.
Woody: All right. I agree. And I agree with you, Nancy. I think we'll be more careful about our advertorial podcasts.
Woody: And show the ice cream! People need to see it!
Woody: Doesn't bother me really.
David: That's because you know, Woody, one thing I've known about you and all your life is that you don't really care about food.
Woody: No, I don't. I don't.
David: You just eat anything.
David: That's it.
Woody: I do.
David: You just eat anything. You don't [00:20:00] care.
Woody: I don't care. I'll eat it. She does have an idea for another podcast. "What is the story behind the B'nai Emanu-El Temple on the corner of 46th and Taraval?
Woody: It has a weird silo tower."
David: Absolutely. It's strange. And it's been remodeled, right? It's like weird aluminum siding on it. So, you look at it and you go, "Ah, this was, had to be something else."
Woody: Yeah. And it's where the L-Taraval turns, so a lot of people see it there. I'll give you a preview. It used to be the Sands Hall, like a dance hall and banquet hall.
David: We should do a podcast on that.
Woody: All right, thank you Nancy for writing in, and thank you for calling us out.
Woody: She says, "cheers with beers, Nancy," because she knows us. So, review us on iTunes, send us mail, feel free to drop the hammer on us. We can take it.
Woody: And David, now it's time for events.
David: Hey, Woody. We are at...
Woody: What? What? Yeah, what are you doing today?
David: [00:21:00] I'm at History Days.
Woody: Hey, congratulations. So am I.
David: Yeah, we're probably gonna record some promos for History Days so the people will hear the, the sounds of History Days, hopefully. Anyway, yeah, it's today.
Woody: And tomorrow.
David: And tomorrow. March 3rd and 4th, 2018 down at Fifth and Mission. You know that building: the Old Mint. And it's rare that it's open, and it's even rarer, only once a year, that it's filled with, I think, like 90 history groups spanning all of San Francisco and even parts of the rest of San Francisco Bay area.
Woody: Yeah, come in and maybe we'll record a promo of you saying you listen to our podcast and we'll play it on a future podcast.
David: I hope Nancy comes.
Woody: Yeah. I want Nancy to come too, just to say cheers with beers. I want you to say that.
David: Yeah. So, it's today 11 to 4
David: No, 11 to 5. And tomorrow, 11 to 4.
Woody: See you then.
Woody: And then if you're still interested in history after this [00:22:00] great weekend of history craziness, we're going to have our OpenSFHistory Top 10 images of the month.
David: Sure. We are Woody.
Woody: Sure we are, on St. Patrick's Day. Irish accents will be kept to a minimum.
David: You know, my hearing is shot as some people know, and I can't even tell if I'm doing a good Irish accent anymore.
Woody: It was great.
Woody: But never do it again. And so, 11:00 AM at our home for history, which is 1617 Balboa Street and it's $10, $1 a photo. And you get to hear Dave and I show you some of the 10 greatest photos we've scanned for the OpenSFHistory site.
David: And if you don't know about the OpenSFHistory site, you should look at it. It's OpenSFHistory.org. We've got over 27,000 pictures all over San Francisco.
Woody: Maybe we should just do a top 27,000 on March 17th.
David: That would be, I can't calculate that, but at 10 bucks, that's barely a fraction of a penny per image.
Woody: That's a good deal. We're also gonna have Ron Jones over, showing his [00:23:00] documentary "Jitterbugging" about …
David: Ron Jones is great.
David: He is effusive.
Woody: Yes. About a Sunset District family, namely his.
David: He's effervescent.
Woody: He is effervescent. March 22nd, Thursday, 7:00, $10, and you get $10 of Ron Jones effervescence.
David: I know we charge 10 bucks for these events now, but we have to pay the rent on our new place.
Woody: Well, it's just $10 is, I mean, I paid $5 for a latte this morning. I am, I'm ashamed to say.
David: Way to position our $10.
Woody: It's two lattes.
Woody: Anyway, go to outsidelands.org/events and see what we're doing this month, next month, forever. David, what else can somebody do at outsidelands.org?
David: Well, you can, you can listen to this podcast. You can view hundreds of images, thousands of images, read hundreds of articles, watch videos, and, Woody, you can become a member of the Western Neighborhoods Project by clicking the "Become a Member" link, which is at the top of any [00:24:00] page.
Woody: Okay. Well, I think people should do that. Nicole, I just want to offer a great thank you for being on the podcast.
Nicole: I want to offer a great thank you for allowing me to be on the podcast.
David: I wanna offer a perfunctory thanks a lot for coming.
David: No, really, we've gotta have you back. We love having you. Nicole is like family to us and so it's great to have her here.
Woody: Yeah. Preview for next week, David, at the podcast. We are going to go to Kelly's pond.
David: Oh. That's a different place than where we normally go to Kelly's.
Woody: You thought I was gonna go to Kelly's Cove?
David: No, I didn't. I knew where we were doing.
Woody: All right. I'll see you then.
Ian: Outsidelands San Francisco is recorded by Ian Hadley. Content Creation and Media production at ihadley.com.
Woody: To learn more about the Western Neighborhoods Project and more about San Francisco history, go to outsidelands.org.
The Outside Lands San Francisco podcast is also available as a subscription via iTunes and by RSS feed.